J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Re: New Generation Fighter

Semi-Lobster said:

Huitong is saying the latest rumours are that CAC has built a full scale model, anybody have anymore info?

Click to expand...

A full scale model has been in 132 factory for serval years already, it was there several years earlier than the contacts were awarded to Chengud/CAC.

The producation of the first batch of J-XX for maiden flight has already begin since early 2008.

What you have heard is a 90%-ready real one for maiden flight, some expected the maiden flight will take place around April/2010,April 30/2010 is one so-called critical time for this project.

Whilst others suggest due to the delay of some parts made in SAC (what a joke, SAC basically has screwed everthing they have ever touched, I think the Chinese aero industry will be most benefitial if SAC can be bankrupted), the plane wont be ready until 2011.

But anyway, the most likeli time for the J-XX to get its maiden flight will be around 2010-2011,which is the time General Zhang has told during his later-banned and seriously downplayed TV interview in CCTV.

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

A full scale model has been in 132 factory for serval years already, it was there several years earlier than the contacts were awarded to Chengud/CAC.

The producation of the first batch of J-XX for maiden flight has already begin since early 2008.

What you have heard is a 90%-ready real one for maiden flight, some expected the maiden flight will take place around April/2010,April 30/2010 is one so-called critical time for this project.

Whilst others suggest due to the delay of some parts made in SAC (what a joke, SAC basically has screwed everthing they have ever touched, I think the Chinese aero industry will be most benefitial if SAC can be bankrupted), the plane wont be ready until 2011.

But anyway, the most likeli time for the J-XX to get its maiden flight will be around 2010-2011,which is the time General Zhang has told during his later-banned and seriously downplayed TV interview in CCTV.

Click to expand...

Hi 70092, wellcome on board !

If true, Your information are very wellcome news ... but honestly to admit, they sound nearly too good to be true !

Can You tell us a it about the source of this info, since at least I never heard so much details before.

Thanks in advance.

Deino


PS: If this CAC mock up is sitting there since years ... has it been redesigned or modified for the prototype, esp. since SAC was "forced" to join the project ??

Re: New Generation Fighter

These things are from the mouths of engineers working in CAC, if your Chinese reading is reasonable good, you can go to CJDBY.net, unlike some other internet military-fan chatrooms,this one is very popular because it get some professionals there, including at least two engineers working in CAC and one former engineer from SAC, and several current pilots from airforce, and several engineers works in other departments in China military industry complex.

Officially, General Zhang Zhaozhong openly claimed the maiden flight of J-XX will be around 2010 to 2011 in his TV interview, althrough laterly his TV show get downplayed seriously and the second part of his TV show which is supposed to discuss the details of this aircraft has been totally banned as well as his own personal blog.

Vice-commander of PLAAF also claim the 5th generation fighter will get maiden flight soon and will enter service by 2017-2019, so 2010-2011 is a quite reasonable time for maiden flight.

As for SAC, you get to understand a bit of the Chinese politics to understand why they get the opporunities to mess this project up even through they have lost the competition, quite some of the senior officials in today's China aero industry group are from SAC, so they feel the need to force CAC to share some part of cakes of this big fat project with SAC, sort of warfares, you know.

The job awarded to SAC has nothing to do with the layout or the core design, only some manufactering task since in theory, SAC should get more experience in empolying Ti-based alloys comparing to CAC yet it seems that they screw this up as well and will most likely miss the deadline.

I think SAC also get some structral design work of the bottom of the fighter.

Actually, the PLAAF is very unsatified about SAC's proprosals, and the 5th generation competition is rather one-sided, the SAC's proprosals are pathetic, one is a carbon-copy of F-22, the other is a werid combination of F-22, J-8 with an set of front wings with no gruantee of a capable flight control can be developed on time espeically given SAC's track record.

In contrast, CAC's proprosal is very new and promising:

According to the research paper published in 2001 by CAC's project leader, its layout is an unqiue combination of lifting-bodyed, parrelleled, upwards canard blended into a set of long and large leading edge blended into the main body of the aircraft.

The aircraft would either get no tails or get very small V-tails (~1/10th the size of convential layout fighters), it shows such layout, comparing to the convential ones, will make the fighter become extremely agile even at extreme attack angles and maintain very good supersonic and stealth performance, with TVC, the fighter's manuerves will be in a league of its own.

Since Chinese airforce believe the fight between 5th generation fighters will most likely settled through dog-fights, so they like this design.

So it is highly unlikely that CAC's design will be changed much after SAC get involved in this project.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Not sure if this is legit.





A-mace..I was trying to figure out why your pics disappeared. Because I can't see them..
popeye

Re: New Generation Fighter

AssassinsMace said:

Not sure if this is legit.

[qimg]http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9431/2713826809e91df1c863115.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9858/27118255f714229a38abddc.jpg[/qimg]

Click to expand...

Well, this one is just a traditional parrelleled canard layout.

The CAC's design is a blended canard layout with a large leading edge/strake, I think the only thing who would looks remotely like this design is some design-concept works shown in Zhuhai China airshows.

One is Anjian UAV, the other is a high performance fighter, ignore the single engine part and/or unmanned part, and ignore their main wings, these designs reperesents the design concept described in the research paper written by these guys in CAC reasonable well.

Re: New Generation Fighter

@ 70092

Just Thanks a lot !!! Keep on posting this way !

@ AssassinsMace

I'm not 100% sure but it seems to be an early proposal of the later X-35 from Lockheed Martin (originally it was a delta-canard design)

Deino

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

Well, this one is just a traditional parrelleled canard layout.

The CAC's design is a blended canard layout with a large leading edge/strake, I think the only thing who would looks remotely like this design is some design-concept works shown in Zhuhai China airshows.

One is Anjian UAV, the other is a high performance fighter, ignore the single engine part and/or unmanned part, and ignore their main wings, these designs reperesents the design concept described in the research paper written by these guys in CAC reasonable well.

Click to expand...

Are you good at drawing? Have any pictures? Or maybe point to any fanart or speculative work that resembles your description?

On the whole you're making it sound a little like the X-44 MANTA concept or the X-36

Re: New Generation Fighter

Well, these two concepts shown in Zhuhai airshow has something in common with the one described in CAC's 2001 paper:

Anjian UAV:



An un-named single engine fighter concept:



Of cause there are many differences between these single-engined aircrafts with the twin engined J-XX, and the main wings are most likely quite different as well, but so far these are the only things re-assemble somewhat the concept described in CAC's paper.

Re: New Generation Fighter

70092 said:

Well, these two concepts shown in Zhuhai airshow has something in common with the one described in CAC's 2001 paper:

Anjian UAV:
[qimg]http://i45.tinypic.com/148hdeq.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i46.tinypic.com/11j41g9.jpg[/qimg]

An un-named single engine fighter concept:

[qimg]http://i49.tinypic.com/2lk8hnk.jpg[/qimg]

Of cause there are many differences between these single-engined aircrafts with the twin engined J-XX, and the main wings are most likely quite different as well, but so far these are the only things re-assemble somewhat the concept described in CAC's paper.

Click to expand...

Should we expect a less angular design? Is it still a delta-canard? Sorry if I'm throwing out too many questions. Trying to piece together what you've told us with some other information we heard before.

Re: New Generation Fighter

Well, according to Song Wencong, the vice-project director of J-XX in CAC:

1, The fighter should get a relatively flat body for better supercruise performance, so it will be thinner than the manned single engine concept, maybe more like anjian.

2, Again, for better supercruise performance, they get no choice but use some delta wing or some wing like the ones installed on F-22.

3, As for canard layout, the front wing will most likely be larger than Anjian, and will be most likely installed at a higher angle upwards for better dog-fight performance.

4,Air intakers are different, the UAV/Concept fighter in Zhuhai airshow install their air intaker blow the body, whilst the one developed in CAC now will most likely arrange their air intaker the same way as F-22/35, etc.