J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by siegecrossbow, May 28, 2011.

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  1. A.Man
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    A.Man Major

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    Video: J-20 2002 August 14 Flight

    [video]http://www.56.com/u58/v_NzExNDE0NDc.html#st=137&fromoutpvid=NzExNDE0NDc&[/video]
     
  2. Air Force Brat
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    Air Force Brat Brigadier

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    Nice to note the forward main gear doors are closed, notice the upward deflection of the canards as he taxis in, that is customarily done by pilots to take stress off the nose gear and to unload the nose gear strut. As I reflected on the larger size of the canards on the J-20, one of the advantages advocated by proponents of canards was that they would stall before the main wing reducing the angle of attack and thereby not allowing the deep stall of the main wing. By contrast the canards on the J-10 look rather small as does the nose wheel of the J-10, a definite departure from Russian aircraft which always had larger landing gear for operating off of unimproved strips. It would be interesting to know how the flight testing of 01 is going, specifically whether or not they have gotten to slow flight and post stall? Thanks for posting A-Man. Brat
     
  3. youngtomous
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    youngtomous Junior Member

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    Nice Video!! Thanks!
     
  4. hardware
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    hardware Banned Idiot

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    according 2012,june (?) issue of Kanwa.phozotron claimed that China is offering to sale there T/R MMIC.the russian admit that the quality of Chinese T/R module is superior to the russian.
     
  5. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    interesting news however it seems it is either untrue, or Russian outlets and Phazotron it self have not reported, but this type of information usually has reapples in russian news outlets

    Phazotron does not report anything about it
    PHAZOTRON-NIIR. Airborne radars and WDCS.
    http://www.phazotron.com/news.html
    Ukraine to Scrap Ordnance for Russian Fleet | Defense | RIA Novosti

    http://lenta.ru/mil/

    So to be honest those news are difficult to authenticate, so it could be true but most likely are just a false rumour


    Считаю необходимым особо подчеркнуть, что в сложных условиях корпорация продолжала успешно развиваться и достигла новых рубежей в науке и в области высоких инновационных технологий. Выдающийся успех конструкторов «Фазотрона» – создание современной бортовой радиолокационной станции «Жук-АЭ» с активной фазированной антенной решеткой (АФАР). По критерию эффективность/стоимость ему нет равных в России и в мире.

    this is the closest written about an aesa, in the news section of phazotron it says nothing about being behind china
     
    #3785 MiG-29, Aug 23, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
  6. 70092
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    70092 Junior Member

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    I have read that issue of Kanwa, Pinkov didnt say Russians admit they are lag behind China, he said:

    1, The Chinese side claim their elecontric componets/hardware for AESA are superior to the Russian counterparts in terms of performance, power consumption, compactness and also cheaper to build, and they try to export these to Russians.

    2, The Chinese side claim they are not interested in Su-35 because they dont rate Su-35 very highly.

    Basciaally thats what Pinkov has written in that piece of news in that issue of Kanwa.
     
  7. hardware
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    hardware Banned Idiot

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    so, the magazine basically said that the Chinese quality control and design are better than russian.
    back in 2004, Chinese website,top81.com reported Chinese x-band MMIC,25mm in lenght,output -8 (10 watt?) watt.the information likely come from technical magzine.but this 8~8-1/2 years ago.surely, improve version likely exist.
     
  8. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    maybe but Phazotron does not report that, plus i do not see Russian sources saying that specially official or news outlets, in fact PAKFA is already flying with a new radar in test, but who knows, but at least now PAKFA is flying with a test radar you can see it herehttp://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/100th-Anniversary-of-RuAF/i-Pmk5VLj/0/O/100letpart202.jpghttp://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/100th-Anniversary-of-RuAF/i-2h65QkK/0/O/100letpart203.jpg
    Sukhoi says it has started testing an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar on its fifth-generation T-50 PAK-FA fighter in a statement issued on 8 August.


    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sukhoi-starts-tests-on-pak-fas-radar-375460/

    More from RIA Novosti:

    The new X-band active phased array radar has been installed on the third prototype of the T-50 fighter and showed a stable and effective performance comparable with the most advanced existing radar systems.
    The radar has been developed by the Moscow-based Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design using elements of nanotechnology
    http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/08/09/new-x-band-active-phased-array-radar-being-tested-on-russian-t-50-fighter-jet/
     
    #3788 MiG-29, Aug 25, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  9. Vini_Vidi_Vici
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    Vini_Vidi_Vici Junior Member

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    The two countries could really help each other. The Chinese got more money and more expertise in newer areas, the Russians have more experience and especially those preliminary groundwork done in the early 90s, which were "avant garde" at the time but now are the core of the 5th generation fighters.

    It's not good to underestimate Chinese capabilities, there were a lot of money invested and clear evidences have showed their great improvements, but they cannot be seen as invincible in everything. China lacks a solid foundation compared to Russia. A lot of the technologies used in PAK-FA were already been researched and even maybe matured in the late 80s and early 90s. The collapse of the Soviet Union halted the progress and delayed the program for almost 2 decades.

    On the other hand, Chinese advancement didn't really show until the late 90s and early 2000s. Most of them didn't even show until last few years. So far, there still haven't been anything groundbreaking in the aeronautical field, apart from the J-20 airframe. But the airframe can't really show much apart just being stealthy. We still have a lot to speculate in terms of engine, avionics, and radar.

    The two sides should exchange technologies. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, the most important of all, both have competitor and potential enemy, USA. Right now both are going into dead loop. China seems to be struggling with engines, doesn't matter how much money and effort is poured into it, very little results seem to show (I know a lot of pro-China members will jump out shouting that China got WS-15, WS20, WS-XXXX and whatever, but for status quo, China is still buying engines from Russia). Russia has a lot of good technologies, but lack money to make them mature and commercialize. Even if they are mature technologies, the Russian air-force lack money to equip it.
     
  10. jobjed
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    jobjed Captain

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    Problem is, Russia really has nothing that could interest the PLA besides engines and helicopters. Airframe-wise, it is indisputable that China can and has developed it independently from Russia. Avionics-wise, China uses minimal foreign avionics on newer designs and even if they do, it's mostly Israeli. This is probably due to every microchip in every PC in the world having a 'made in China' label on it. Of course, the civilian sector can not be representative of the military sector but it can demonstrate to us that China clearly has the capacity to manufacture modern microchips and electronics, which easily brings us to the conclusion that so can their military. Engine-wise, Russia still has some market in China, but time is ticking away. As soon as those J-10's retire and China gets its WS-10 production line expanded, the AL-31 is history. It will undoubtedly take a decade or two, but I'm quite confident it will happen. On the topic of helicopters, the Mi-17s will probably still be purchased for the foreseeable future. The Z-15 carries half its load so it obviously cannot be a replacement for the Mi-17 and I don't know of any helicopter projects that China has under way that will replace the Mi-17s.

    China's engine development is not in a dead loop, importing engines is not concrete representation of a country's lack of ability to manufacture engines. I'm quite sure the US has the ability to manufacture iphones and ipads, but they choose to manufacture them overseas because it's economical to. Likewise, if the first few hundred J-10's have been built with the AL-31 in mind, it would be economical to continue using AL-31's until the end of their lifespan instead of suddenly all changing to the WS-10. Besides, I doubt China has the capability to manufacture WS-10's in such huge numbers in such a short time currently. Probably give it a few years for China to ramp up production of domestic engines.
     
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