J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Asymptote

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Remember when they use to declare low quality worksmanship because you can see the rivets on Chinese fighters?

The French seem to be claiming it's a rip-off of the Typhoon.


I am just curious why the body of J-20 is so smooth, and painted black all over as if its a production run fighter. The body material reminds me of the Anjian "Dark Sword" UCAV presented back in 2007 that's all.

And would any aviation expert shed some light on this? Why is it most of the prototype planes were painted in either dark green or light yellow, and they all seem to be made of different materials too (perhaps those colours are actually the colour of composite material?)
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

And would any aviation expert shed some light on this? Why is it most of the prototype planes were painted in either dark green or light yellow, and they all seem to be made of different materials too (perhaps those colours are actually the colour of composite material?)

The keyword here is 'MOST'. Well it is not necessary true that a prototype aircraft had to be yellow in colour, or blue or whatever colour. Look at Y-23, it was black in colour... X-35 (F-35) prototype was in silver or grey colour. I think that is the same case for Y-22 (F-22).

So as you can see, there really had no indication on what colour to use. And I think someone in this forum mentioned that some of the colours are prime colour, or something like that. And, I think, some company or country like to differentiate the different type of material used on the plane with different colour (might be for the reason that in the case of failure, it is quickly identified what or which material went wrong).

So it is perfectly alright for the new J-20 to be in black. Even if it was in yellow, blue, green, rainbow colour, there simply is no real indication of whatsoever.
 

terrorhunter

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

I am just curious why the body of J-20 is so smooth, and painted black all over as if its a production run fighter. The body material reminds me of the Anjian "Dark Sword" UCAV presented back in 2007 that's all.

And would any aviation expert shed some light on this? Why is it most of the prototype planes were painted in either dark green or light yellow, and they all seem to be made of different materials too (perhaps those colours are actually the colour of composite material?)

the yellow or green are primer paints used by the companies. different companies use different colour paint. it doesnt mean yellow equates a certain material and green another. like i mentioned before from some of the previous photos we can see that one of the j-20 prototypes has exposed yellow panels in the nose and we can also see that the parachute compartment is still painted yellow on the inside. all these points to the fact that CAC gave the J-20 a coat of paint so that it looks presentable as they know that ppl will be taking photos of it and being chinese it has to look good. the j-10 prototype had a white colour paint when it was first revealed and the JH-7 and L-15 were all painted when they were first made public. it doesnt mean that one country has a certain way of presenting prototypes so all other countries must follow-suit, same as with military tech development.

we live in a time of computer simulation and modelling. any defects or design flaws can and will be worked out on the computers - bare in mind that china currently has the fastest super-computer in the world - and the final prototype will be a product of years of ironing out kinks on computers. that is the reason why most planes nowadays do not have many variants. the only reason there are variants now is so that the same plane can fulfill different combat roles, not because there's a problem with it. so by making the assumption that china is still having problems with J-10 and J-11B because there's no variants is flawed and non-congruent with modern day tech development. im quite sure that IF the J-10 and J-11 still had problems the chinese would not be fielding them in the quantity that they currently are.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Hmmm ... Seems as if it is part of one picture that was intentionally blurred ... Any ideas ???

Deino

It seems like the same blurring effect was used. Have to check with the previous blurred pictures. If the blurring effect is the same, then this picture probably comes from the same source and is probably the real thing. This then would mean the J-20 did already has its first flight previously.
 

SNSD

Banned Idiot
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

No, I am not saying that, trust me.
What I am saying is, I felt its a little premature to show off the piece.

Allow me elaborate. When I look at design, I look at the lineage, and when you look at lineage, you look at the most variants a design can offer - And currently J-10/J-11B seems still fresh off the production/under production line, with almost no variants to speak of. The last fighter that seems to me to be very well understood by the Chinese aviation industry seems to be the J-7 and J-8, with almost hundreds of variations. It shows the level of confidence and understanding in modifying the design because of the thorough understanding and knowledge gain in those design.

Just imagine if you design something, let's say a car, and because its a new design, you are just happy it "works" (magic!) and is afraid modifying it will result in failure - and that's normal in almost every field of engineering/design process. And it took a long time until designers thoroughly understood the principles of the design, that they start really tearing it apart again, examine every parts and redesign every part to have next generation design. Along the way, you have hundreds of modification/variation of original design. And this usually starts from the outside - the shell of the design - the body/structure frame of the design. So the car usually get a different look first, while the engines and the innards get change much much later.

People in the West are always China bashing. When China is being secretive, they label them a threat to their national security and interest. When they are open about it, they still label them a threat to their national security and national interest then tell the world that they are inferior and that they are 20 to 30 years behind them.

The process that the pioneers (US and the EU) went through will always be the lengthiest because they have to come up with the designs, research and use appropriate materials, research and apply technologies and modern manufacturing techiques. Once the products are constructed numerous tests needs to be done via trial and error to determine the effectiveness and practicality of their product. So yes it takes time!

However, as times pass by more and more technologies, materials and manufacturing processes mature and becomes available, this will help developing countries catch such as China catch up. As we all know, they have plenty of money and they now have the luxury of new materials, technologies, manufacturing techniques and perhaps data to help them with the science and technological leap forward. You cannot predict how many years ahead or behind using the traditional method of thinking anymore. Things can only get quicker and easier as times pass.
Not to mention with China giving away so much financial aids and securing business deals around the world these days, you just never know what actually gets traded underneath the tables.

Here are some other things that may have contributed to China's recent achievements:

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Clinton Gave China satellite and solid fuel technology to generate cash for his campaigns and personal gains.

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B-2 Bomber, low signiture and stealth cruise missile technology sold to the Chinese.

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Obama's proposed sale of B-2 spirit bomber blue print, stealth paint and metals to help US ease off Chinese debt.

It is also rumoured that the Lockheed EP-3 spy plane that was forced down near Hainan was actually an deliberate act to give the spy and radar technology to China as an payment to ease off debt. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit that China is so far ahead in the technological developments despite the embargo that was placed upon them by America and the EU since 1989.
 
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Centrist

Junior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

I am getting tired of reading getting email after email about how China 'stole' this or that. Lets just get the facts straight.

1.The J-20 is not a fiberglass model.
2.The J-20 is not a technology demonstrator (China does not have the time, nor does she have a history of this step).
3. The J-20 is Chinese designed and is a prototype, albeit maybe with Russian engines.

I remember an American General being quoted are saying the Pak-fa was a "russian copy'" of the F-22. Any idiot could tell you that they are completely different aircraft, and calling it a copy is a serious dis-service to the F-22.

People are always going to call it a copy because China and Russia "copy everything." They need to update their knowledge and know that China is at the forefront of tech now.

Lets move on from this ridiculous nonsense and talk about the aircraft constructively. I am tired of coming on here and swarming through pages of complete nonsense.
 

EDIATH

Junior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

No, I am not saying that, trust me.
What I am saying is, I felt its a little premature to show off the piece.

Allow me elaborate. When I look at design, I look at the lineage, and when you look at lineage, you look at the most variants a design can offer - And currently J-10/J-11B seems still fresh off the production/under production line, with almost no variants to speak of. The last fighter that seems to me to be very well understood by the Chinese aviation industry seems to be the J-7 and J-8, with almost hundreds of variations. It shows the level of confidence and understanding in modifying the design because of the thorough understanding and knowledge gain in those design.

Just imagine if you design something, let's say a car, and because its a new design, you are just happy it "works" (magic!) and is afraid modifying it will result in failure - and that's normal in almost every field of engineering/design process. And it took a long time until designers thoroughly understood the principles of the design, that they start really tearing it apart again, examine every parts and redesign every part to have next generation design. Along the way, you have hundreds of modification/variation of original design. And this usually starts from the outside - the shell of the design - the body/structure frame of the design. So the car usually get a different look first, while the engines and the innards get change much much later.

Actually they have moved on from J10A to J10B, J11B to J15, both significantly different from the original. One can easily trace the J20 lineage back to J10 (canards) and JF-17 (DSI), not to mention the aborted J9 design, which was 80% identical to that of J20.

IMHO the plane we're seeing now is more or less equivalent to YF-22 in terms of stage of development, though it's likely more prototypes will roll out for CAC to accelerate the development, let's say around 10 prototypes undergoing various testings simultaneously, which would almost halve the time needed for the job.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

bare in mind that there are 2 prototypes one of which has some yellow, unpainted panels exposed and no company would build 2 planes with different engines purely as tech demonstrators let alone 4, as we have reports that CAC are assembling another 2 J-20 planes
Whoa.... is there a source for this? If this is true, then I am more and more convinced that J-20 is much further along than we thought. And late 2012 is a feasible IOC date.

Recall that engines are relatively the most problematic part. But here we've seen the FWS10A (or one with stealthy nozzles... FWS10G?) fitted on the prototype. That means even the most problematic part is progressing smoothly.

Let me put it another way..... when was the last time anybody overestimated China's ability? Answer is never. It's been a non-stop sequence of underestimations for the past 10 years. Actual performance has completely smashed the expectations of nearly everybody. So is the rational thing to keep making the same mistake over and over?

Late 2012.... that's my well-informed opinion...... ready in time for possible new US president administration and possible new Taiwan "president" administration.

koreans also claim that chinese new year and mid-autumn festival belongs to them too.

from another angle: KF-X is still in design phase, finances and consortium still getting ironed out, no known working prototype yet.
J-20, working prototype, high-speed taxi trials conducted, flight test imminent, 3rd and 4th prototypes under construction.

so few years down the road when the KF-X is made public and if it looks like the J-20, can i say its a rip-off of the J-20? i mean the J-20 came first right?
LOL..... how can China "rip-off" something that doesn't exist except in concept art? From a country that has never made any indigenous aircraft? Are the Koreans saying time travel must be involved?


Anyway, do not worry about people who show their contempt for China with their belitting of China's capabilities. Ultimately, they are simply painting themselves into a corner. By brainwashing themselves, they are actually decreasing their own combat effectiveness. If their contempt and belligerence leads to a real conflict, they will be the ones eliminated in a survival-of-the-fittest.
 

kyanges

Junior Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

I don't doubt for a second that most everyone here has already seen these CGI's, but I figure I'll post these here anyway for the few who might not.

121045898.jpg

429543505.jpg
 
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windracer

New Member
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

To kyanges, these are really good CG, thank you ......Hopefully we will see the real version flying like that soon in future....^^
 
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