J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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latenlazy

Brigadier
Depending on how one defines "high thrust", one should also include UK, France and Japan to that list. And if we lower the standard a bit, Germany would be able to design and develop one as well all by itself (even if it doesn't have engines 100% their own ), and lowering it further, possibly Italy, Sweden Canada and India. And if we set the treshold low enough, even Iran could get on the list. Though in their example it's really stretching it that reverse engineered turbojets for F-5 (and possibly F-4) are high thrust. They're not turbofans for sure, but if one wanted to, one could make turbofan variants.
I think if we look at overall capabilities, France, the UK, Germany, the US, and Russia should all be ahead of China at the current moment, *but* there's also a lot of tech and knowledge sharing going on between France, the UK, Germany, and the US, which China is deliberately (though partially) being excluded from. Japan in theory *should* be able to match these countries in capability, in part because they would also be beneficiaries of the knowledge and tech sharing between the US, UK, France, and Germany, but they have never touched a fully indigenous design from concept to production in the contemporary era, so I think placing them so definitively would be more than a bit hasty.

In this context, I think it's impressive to note what China has been able to do accomplish. Despite operating under conditions where access to the most up to date knowledge and technology has been largely denied to them, they have still been able to advance this far and fast. Even when we factor in the role espionage and foreign assistance has played to help China get to where it is, what they have been able to accomplish in this field of technology given the circumstances they have had to deal with is quite noteworthy. Regardless of where they are today, this *should* bode well for the future of China's aerospace engine industry, presuming that the effort can be consistently and competently maintained.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Depending on how one defines "high thrust", one should also include UK, France and Japan to that list. And if we lower the standard a bit, Germany would be able to design and develop one as well all by itself (even if it doesn't have engines 100% their own ), and lowering it further, possibly Italy, Sweden Canada and India. And if we set the treshold low enough, even Iran could get on the list. Though in their example it's really stretching it that reverse engineered turbojets for F-5 (and possibly F-4) are high thrust. They're not turbofans for sure, but if one wanted to, one could make turbofan variants.

I'm talking about engines in the same thrust class as F-110. Neither UK nor France can make an engine in the same class as of 2017.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
At least five nations can produce high thrust turbofans. USA, Russia, France, UK, China. Just because someone hasn't done something doesn't mean they're not capable of it. UK and France definitely can produce high thrust engines in the same class as F110, Al-31, and WS-10.
 

siegecrossbow

General
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Super Moderator
At least five nations can produce high thrust turbofans. USA, Russia, France, UK, China. Just because someone hasn't done something doesn't mean they're not capable of it. UK and France definitely can produce high thrust engines in the same class as F110, Al-31, and WS-10.

Then couldn't the French use something more powerful than the M-53 back when they were developing the Mirage-4000, which was in the same weight class as a F-15?
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
They certainly have the technology and expertise. High thrust engines would take too long and eat up too much funding to be worth it.
 

Richard Santos

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I'm talking about engines in the same thrust class as F-110. Neither UK nor France can make an engine in the same class as of 2017.


They have not actually done so. But I think it is reasonable to suppose they can form a cartel and do so if tasked to do so, the depth of expertise and the breadth of sophistication is prodigious amongst the various civil and military consortiums in the EU, as well as in the broad industrial infrastructure that can be called on to support them.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Then couldn't the French use something more powerful than the M-53 back when they were developing the Mirage-4000, which was in the same weight class as a F-15?

Mirage 4000 wasn't a critical national defense project for France, but a speculative commercial venture by Dassault. It was simply implausible for a commercial French twin engine heavy fighter to be competitive if its price included the cost of a major engine development program, at a time when the US was offering its own deployed F-15 on the world market, with all engine and other development costs already paid for by tax dollars.

In the end there was no market for the Mirage 4000 even at the cheaper price. It was good the French didn't invest in a engine for it as any engine that would have made the mirage 4000 competitive with the F15 would have been stranded, as all subsequent French or European fighter project then on the horizon didn't need engines that large.
 
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