J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI
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Also, not sure if this has been posted yet:
I don't treat the source as credible, but what about the source's source? Was there actually a government claim that the J-20 has the RCS of a bee?
If that's true, the length of Apis Cerana (Asian Honeybee) is about 9 mm. That'd come out to about 0.000006 dBsm, or about negative 42 dBsm, putting it in the same range as the F-22. The F-35 is rumored to be around -50 dBsm, however.
For reference purposes:
If you assume the cross section is straight frontal, the effective cross section would be around -44 dBsm, which would be superior to the F-22 but still falling behind the F-35. Still, this would amount to a 92% range reduction, compared to a 94% range reduction on the F-35; i.e, in radar detection, with both aircraft having effective LPI modes, same generation of radar, the J-20's 40% longer radar would be able to see the F-35 at the same time the J-20 would see it.
I don't treat the source as credible, but what about the source's source? Was there actually a government claim that the J-20 has the RCS of a bee?
If that's true, the length of Apis Cerana (Asian Honeybee) is about 9 mm. That'd come out to about 0.000006 dBsm, or about negative 42 dBsm, putting it in the same range as the F-22. The F-35 is rumored to be around -50 dBsm, however.
For reference purposes:
If you assume the cross section is straight frontal, the effective cross section would be around -44 dBsm, which would be superior to the F-22 but still falling behind the F-35. Still, this would amount to a 92% range reduction, compared to a 94% range reduction on the F-35; i.e, in radar detection, with both aircraft having effective LPI modes, same generation of radar, the J-20's 40% longer radar would be able to see the F-35 at the same time the J-20 would see it.
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One last thing:
Afterburners are supposed to be visible, and the sonic boom indicates that the aircraft has hit Mach 1. In the F-35's case, you can see the afterglow of the afterburners. In the J-20's case, it's very hard to detect whether the afterburner flame is active.
Can we conclude as a result that as a result the J-20, in some load conditions, is capable of supercruising?
Afterburners are supposed to be visible, and the sonic boom indicates that the aircraft has hit Mach 1. In the F-35's case, you can see the afterglow of the afterburners. In the J-20's case, it's very hard to detect whether the afterburner flame is active.
Can we conclude as a result that as a result the J-20, in some load conditions, is capable of supercruising?
Yeah, I found out after a while. With the J-20, I'm trying to figure out how hard it is to tell whether the afterburners are on. It matters a lot, because if we're seeing J-20s maneuvering without afterburner, it'll significantly degrade their performance.
Here's a shot of the J-20 with afterburners on, using Al-31, it seems.
On this video , at around 1:46, you see the J-20 from the rear, at reasonably close distances, but with no sign of afterburner.
Here's a shot of the J-20 with afterburners on, using Al-31, it seems.
On this video , at around 1:46, you see the J-20 from the rear, at reasonably close distances, but with no sign of afterburner.
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Here's another shot of the J-20 with afterburners:
It looks like in contrast to other aircraft, the J-20, at least with WS-10 or Al-31, has very concealed afterburner emissions, so it's possible that the afterburners in the J-20 are deeply seated into the nozzle.
One other way to determine if the afterburner is on is to see the nozzle position. Afterburners create a lot of excess heat, which if the nozzle is squeezed, ends up being blown back into the turbine, causing engine overheating. Open nozzle positions suggest the afterburner is in use.
This is an example of the J-20 creating vortices (Zhuhai, I'm told), but with the nozzles in a closed position.
It looks like in contrast to other aircraft, the J-20, at least with WS-10 or Al-31, has very concealed afterburner emissions, so it's possible that the afterburners in the J-20 are deeply seated into the nozzle.
One other way to determine if the afterburner is on is to see the nozzle position. Afterburners create a lot of excess heat, which if the nozzle is squeezed, ends up being blown back into the turbine, causing engine overheating. Open nozzle positions suggest the afterburner is in use.
This is an example of the J-20 creating vortices (Zhuhai, I'm told), but with the nozzles in a closed position.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Vapor cone doesn’t mean it’s hit super sonic speeds. You can have that effect in humid air without breaking the sound barrier.One last thing:
Afterburners are supposed to be visible, and the sonic boom indicates that the aircraft has hit Mach 1. In the F-35's case, you can see the afterglow of the afterburners. In the J-20's case, it's very hard to detect whether the afterburner flame is active.
Can we conclude as a result that as a result the J-20, in some load conditions, is capable of supercruising?
Farther F35 can be easily seen on burner because you can see into the Nozzle from this angle J20’s angle vs the camera means that we cannot see into the nozzles.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Correction the J20 image is a PS. However the original F22 image shows exactly the same thing where in the Exhaust nozzles are at an angle vs the camera that you wouldn’t see the Burner effect.
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Exactly, and I can assure you when you see the J-20 being pitched to the vertical, or any heavy maneuvering such as hard pulls or very steep banks he is without doubt in afterburner.. whether or not the flame is visible to the naked eye is inconsequential, that depends on ambient lighting etc, etc.
The solo flight display at Zhuhai was in afterburner almost continuously after the break, and that applies to all heavy fighter aircraft being aggressively maneuvered.
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