J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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Blitzo

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There seems to be one new unnamed AAM that has AESA radar on the missile

Well it's been suggested that PL-15 itself has an AESA seeker so...

as for other AAMs, there is a rumour that a further smaller fin PL-15 variant might be in the works to allow J-20 to carry six of them, and we haven't heard much from the ramjet AAM in a while but we don't know if it's dead yet. Then of course there is the larger, very long range missile that popped up last year but which obviously is too big for J-20's internal bays.
 

ougoah

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We haven't seen any new missiles but I'd bet they are developing a few MRAAMs that fit 6 in that bay. Maybe some ramjet powered longer ranged ones at 4 a time as well. There'll be definitely more than one of these in development. We know there's room for improvement in reducing sizes since western missiles are smaller with similar ranges.
 

Inst

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You can always attempt to pack the missile diagonally. Designing the J-20 to permit diagonally-packed missiles could give it an ability to pack long-range missiles other aircraft could not.

As to supersonic stealth warfare, the question is whether the missiles have NEZ well beyond detection range or well within detection range. If the missile NEZ is beyond detection range, it becomes whoever is spotted first dies, and the kinematic advantage of the J-20 only matters if it's running interception missions. If the missile's NEZ is within detection range, however, the J-20 can exploit its advantage.

Rumors put the Meteor's minimum NEZ between 75 and 90 km. The J-20 can likely be detected at 100 km from its supersonic corona, with 50 km detection range from a 400 km detection vs 0 dBsm and an estimated -35 dBsm RCS. It's a toss-up as to whether the J-20's supersonic maneuverability can be fully exploited.
 

ougoah

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Detected at 100km is not the same as tracked and engaged. F-22 could likely be detected by UHF radars years ago at long ranges. Being able to accurately guide X band missiles to it at 100km is another thing. It's not doable yet. Meteor will soon have equivalents in Russia, USA, and China in a matter of years if not already done. This puts Typhoons and Rafales at an even greater disadvantage compared to long range ramjet powered missiles from these countries launched on LO platforms. There's no winning for 4+ gen planes. We won't even go into previous gens with even weaker sensors. What I don't understand is if J-20 is as successful as claimed, why was Su-35 purchased? We can rationalise it all we want but that piece of the puzzle does not fit. Some people think it's creating solidarity with Russia while both face increasing pressure from USA. I don't buy that because why not buy other military equipment that China could clearly benefit from like S-400, Su-34, Tu-160. If China's domestic fighter program is as advanced as a successful 5th gen fighter with soon to be applied new engines that work well, why purchase something that only mildly supplements very effective and competent fighter programs in J-10, J-11, J-20, even J-31 possibly.
 

latenlazy

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Detected at 100km is not the same as tracked and engaged. F-22 could likely be detected by UHF radars years ago at long ranges. Being able to accurately guide X band missiles to it at 100km is another thing. It's not doable yet. Meteor will soon have equivalents in Russia, USA, and China in a matter of years if not already done. This puts Typhoons and Rafales at an even greater disadvantage compared to long range ramjet powered missiles from these countries launched on LO platforms. There's no winning for 4+ gen planes. We won't even go into previous gens with even weaker sensors. What I don't understand is if J-20 is as successful as claimed, why was Su-35 purchased? We can rationalise it all we want but that piece of the puzzle does not fit. Some people think it's creating solidarity with Russia while both face increasing pressure from USA. I don't buy that because why not buy other military equipment that China could clearly benefit from like S-400, Su-34, Tu-160. If China's domestic fighter program is as advanced as a successful 5th gen fighter with soon to be applied new engines that work well, why purchase something that only mildly supplements very effective and competent fighter programs in J-10, J-11, J-20, even J-31 possibly.
Notice how when the Su-35 was procured was about the same time J-11 production stopped and SAC shifted over to J-15 and J-16 production? I suspect there was a production gap the PLAAF needed to fill, and they knew this ahead of time.
 

Air Force Brat

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Notice how when the Su-35 was procured was about the same time J-11 production stopped and SAC shifted over to J-15 and J-16 production? I suspect there was a production gap the PLAAF needed to fill, and they knew this ahead of time.

No doubt you're right, it takes production capacity, and as sophisticated as China's production process is, the J-20 is a very sophisticated aircraft, and difficult to build rapidly in batch production.

The SU-35s sale has given Russia an infusion of cash, and they have "plowed" that back into the SU-57 which was in crisis several years ago, but now has a modicum of sustainability..

Remember, Russia supplied China with aircraft during the Korean War, and enabled their production at the same time... so even though they have "turf wars", trying to figure out who is really the 800 lb Gorilla?? Russia NEEDS China, and China NEEDS Russia in order to undermine the US/Western partnership around the globe, its just that simple.
 

ougoah

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But why would China pick Su-35 instead of the potentially more useable Su-34 which they could pull apart and learn from and maybe even reverse engineer and copy? Su-35 has equivalents in China and fighters like J-20 that exceed it. J-11Bs could be upgraded further to be a cheaper version of Su-35 or J-11D if they worked the bugs out. If the problem was production rate, J-20 production doesn't really affect SAC production of J-11 models. SAC isn't mass producing J-31. So by the time PLAAF gets all 24 Su-35, they could have worked out J-11D and built a few. Su-34 could have been purchased for evaluation in reverse engineering. If China just wants to inject money into Sukhoi which is silly because they are not park of PAKFA and India is a rising adversary to China. If they wanted to inject some cash into Russia to back them up, why not buy other equipment China is behind in? Why Su-35 that we are allegedly equal to. This makes me doubt China's fighter projects a little.
 

Deino

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Guys .... we are still in the J-20-thread???
 
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