J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Interstellar]

Another example about taking advantage of the lack of publicity.

 

[Equation]

J-20 according to many Russian military observers and enthusiasts, is just a cheap copy of a Mig-1.44. Despite the glaringly obvious evidence against that claim. I don't think it's about being recognised. There's still a slight emphasis on Deng's whole bide your time, hide your strength mantra in today's Chinese leadership. However they are seemingly more open and showy these days because there's money to be made in exports for one thing and it's good to gradually improve your image from low quality equipment and copies to decent stuff. That can't happen overnight. Another important consideration for them is improving military image deters drama from occurring nearby. Strength is a good deterrent of violence. Another thing is if Chinese equipment image is gradually improved over time to reflect their actual quality these days, it helps with all Chinese exports and overall economy. That is exactly why western powers and Russia is so willing and desperate to undermine this whenever it suits them. Russia wants to preserve their market and what better way than badmouthing the competition. Only western powers ever say anything "positive" about Chinese military abilities and when they do, it's to incite fear and justify increased budgets.

I agreed with what you said, but a Russian delusion is still a Russian delusion no matter what time or state of the economy they're in. Russian military enthusiast and watchers will always bad mouth their competitors no matter what and make excuses for their short comings. Heck even during the Cold War the Soviets would claim many of US military equipment are inferior to theirs, such as air craft carriers, sub sonars system, radars and avionics systems aboard medium range bombers and even nuclear ballistic missiles. Even today with sanctions going on in Russia many of them still believe it doesn't have an effect on their lives or the production and R&D of their military tech and equipment. Tin foil hats and rose colored glasses are better than reality.

 

[Inst]

I'm as always alarmed by the xenophobia on these forums, but I'll point out that the Russians have a strong incentive to be dishonest. They are, after all, the masters of disinformation, and they have a vested interest in claiming that the Su-57 is better than the J-20 and that the Su-35S has a uniform superiority over any Chinese Flanker-derivatives. The Russian claims shouldn't be treated as delusional, but dshonest, in the same way you shouldn't treat American claims about Chinese capabilities as delusional, but dishonest.

 

[Inst]

I think you are confusing this image (that of a J-10C) with the J-10B image. J-10B, which uses a PESA radar, has an elevated ridge in the center.

Those are IFF dipoles, which an AESA radar could replace by software modes. I remember having fervent arguments with people here and elsewhere that it's PESA, not AESA. I'm glad to see the debate has been resolved.

 

[latenlazy]

I think you are confusing this image (that of a J-10C) with the J-10B image. J-10B, which uses a PESA radar, has an elevated ridge in the center.

No, I think Deino is aware of the difference between the two radars, *but* as I’ve mentioned before (a few years back actually), the information surrounding these two radars makes their identities quite confusing. Recall that when the image of the radar with the IFF dipoles was released we had a study referring to it as an AESA, and when the image of the radar without the IFF dipoles was released we were still trying to tease apart the difference between the J-10B and J-10C, and many thought that J-10 in that image was a B and not a C, so the radar must have been the PESA that people said the J-10B was using. In a vacuum without that particular history of information surrounding these two images and knowing what we know now about the J-10’s radar history, it would be natural to conclude the radar with the IFF dipoles was a PESA, and the radar without it was an AESA, but if we’re to trust our own methods for parsing information then those methods would suggest very contradictory, and thus inconclusive, things about the identities of those two radars.

 

[latenlazy]

Those are IFF dipoles, which an AESA radar could replace by software modes. I remember having fervent arguments with people here and elsewhere that it's PESA, not AESA. I'm glad to see the debate has been resolved.

Not really. We’ve never seen IFFs on PESAs either. Just because you *could* program an AESA with software to function as an IFF doesn’t mean all ESAs that don’t are PESAs. There are examples of AESA mounted fighters that have independent IFF antennas.

 

[Blitzo]

I'm as always alarmed by the xenophobia on these forums, but I'll point out that the Russians have a strong incentive to be dishonest. They are, after all, the masters of disinformation, and they have a vested interest in claiming that the Su-57 is better than the J-20 and that the Su-35S has a uniform superiority over any Chinese Flanker-derivatives. The Russian claims shouldn't be treated as delusional, but dshonest, in the same way you shouldn't treat American claims about Chinese capabilities as delusional, but dishonest.

With that post I think you just expressed more incisive xenophobia than the last few pages, jeez..

 

[AssassinsMace]

I guess Zhuhai is still leaving sour tastes to outsiders. Interesting how those who want to believe these reports, why don't they apply that to those F-22s damaged in that hurricane that hit last year. It wasn't that F-22s were damaged. It was the report that they were abled to be damaged because a large portion of the entire F-22 fleet was grounded for various many maintenance reasons. The ones in the hurricane's path couldn't get out of Dodge. What would they say if that were China? Never seen AESA on the J-20 must mean there isn't any AESA for the J-20. The usual suspects probably didn't like seeing four J-20s flying all at once especially with the low numbers as of now produced. If we used the grounded F-22s as a base, there shouldn't be any J-20s able to fly because the Chinese make everything with far worse reliability.. Yeah and not much notice on Chinese TVC beforehand and then they had it demonstrating at Zhuhai like that. How long was it hidden away for public view before they would display it like that for a single engine TVC? And I read a lot about the reported demise of the Su-57... It must be true since it was published for all to read.

 

[Hyperwarp]

IMHO, since Mr. Piotr Butowski is a seasoned professional (and not an internet warrior) the best would be if a mainland defense journalist writes a rebuttal. The idea that there are no production AESA is very baffling to me. There are probably 100 to 150 J-10C + J-16 in-service now. Very 1st batch of J-16 had trouble with its radar and J-10B did not receive an AESA, but that was sometime back. Why would China show an AESA for export if variants are not even ready for domestic usage? PL-12, PL-10 are cleared for export because there are equivalent domestic versions. This applies to radars, missiles and almost every conceivable system developed by the PRC. Either something is not needed and are purely for export (like the JF-17) or domestic versions already exist.

 

[Interstellar]

In case anyone of you is interested:

歼10B飞机上，14所为其研制了某型新体制机载火控雷达。这是14所紧跟世界潮流，在机载火控雷达技术领域取得又一次跨越，实现了新体制机载火控雷达在我军战机的首次列装。这种新体制雷达技术复杂性和技术难度显著提高，具备更强的目标探测能力，探测威力/跟踪精度及稳定性在同类轻型歼击机中处于领先水平，具备较强的抗干扰能力，能够同时进行多目标攻击。

歼10C飞机上，14所为其研制的新体制机载火控雷达在技术上更进一步。该型雷达的研制全面继承了同期最新科研成果，各项性能指标优于国际同期产品，创下新体制雷达首次列装部队的又一个第一。值得一提的是，该型雷达以零故障通过严酷的可靠性鉴定试验，充分展示了14所优异的雷达研发水平、批量生产能力和全寿命周期保障能力。