J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[TerraN_EmpirE]

there was a 'deployment' according to Jane's in Tibet. Also, there was a report of 18 J-20's having been built through July of 2018. I thought they were referring to production variant, rather than the earlier development models. I could be wrong (have been before and will be again).

Okay so you say 18.
And Tibet.

This is an important question.

Thank you.

We know that at least two units have J-20s; 7 unique serials have been IDed at Dingxin's 176th brigade, and 4 unique serials IDed from Cangzhou's 172nd brigade, making a total of 11 unique J-20s that form a floor for the number of J-20s in service.

Okay so I was behind the times. Thank you for the update.

There are at least 18 production model J-20s based on the manufacture serial number Deino found on one of the performing jets in Zhuhai. There are probably more.

Another 18.

Personally, I believe that it is very very unlikely that we've been able to ID all of the J-20s in service as that would be virtually unprecedented for any new fighter type at this stage of its introduction.

I would estimate as of late 2018 that there are probably 20

18-20 units pretty consistent. Now you can't use the first prototypes for operations as those early early units are obviously inferior to the current units. Like the YF22 most of those early J20 are mounted on some pedestal or collecting dust in a hanger or parked in a Gobi Boneyard.
So 18-20 heck I'll be generous and say 24 initial production machines with some late prototypes being converable. Now compared to SU57 that's pretty good about double.

But are those fully missionized?
Deployed to Tibet or for a front line squadron okay but it's been a long time since the PLA actually was in a fight, so although they have been forward deployed does that mean that they are mission ready? Not nessisarily. They may need upgrades to get them mission ready, 20 "Significant" numbers? I would bet that those two units would be part of the training and transition program for getting J20 up and running more than actually meant to fight anyone.

Still end result here is far more built than Russia which was my issue back then.

Now. "Significant" that's a bit of spin. It's a start. How about that?.

 

[Blitzo]

There are at least 18 production model J-20s based on the manufacture serial number Deino found on one of the performing jets in Zhuhai. There are probably more.

I assume you're talking about the CB number? I am tempted to agree with you, however we do not know where CB starts from. If it starts from LRIP aircraft then it would certainly suggest that 18 aircraft would form the floor of current in service numbers.

However if CB starts from J-20 prototype/TD 1 (i.e.: 2001) then that changes things a little.

 

[Blitzo]

18-20 units pretty consistent. Now you can't use the first prototypes for operations as those early early units are obviously inferior to the current units. Like the YF22 most of those early J20 are mounted on some pedestal or collecting dust in a hanger or parked in a Gobi Boneyard.
So 18-20 heck I'll be generous and say 24 initial production machines with some late prototypes being converable. Now compared to SU57 that's pretty good about double.

But are those fully missionized?
Deployed to Tibet or for a front line squadron okay but it's been a long time since the PLA actually was in a fight, so although they have been forward deployed does that mean that they are mission ready? Not nessisarily. They may need upgrades to get them mission ready, 20 "Significant" numbers? I would bet that those two units would be part of the training and transition program for getting J20 up and running more than actually meant to fight anyone.

Still end result here is far more built than Russia which was my issue back then.

Now. "Significant" that's a bit of spin. It's a start. How about that?.

We don't know what would define as IOC or FOC for J-20 in terms of capabilities and subsystems.
I would suspect that in terms of hardware the aircraft should have it all there for LRIP aircraft, but in terms of software we may end up seeing spirals of development not dissimilar to F-22 and F-35.

However, the fact that in early 2017 J-20s were announced to have "entered service" and that in early 2018 this year it was announced that J-20s had "entered combat service," I do believe that a baseline level of combat capability and mission readiness likely has been achieved.


In terms of being "deployed" -- I actually do not know which deployment to Tibet we are talking about. If anything I think the regular combat unit at 9th Brigade Wuhu rumoured to have J-20s would represent the regular line "combat ready unit". The aircraft at Cangzhou and Dingxin act in the role of tactics development, OPFOR and a strategic reserve.

I would consider 20 or more LRIP J-20s in service to be a significant number yes.

 

[latenlazy]

We don't know what would define as IOC or FOC for J-20 in terms of capabilities and subsystems.
I would suspect that in terms of hardware the aircraft should have it all there for LRIP aircraft, but in terms of software we may end up seeing spirals of development not dissimilar to F-22 and F-35.

However, the fact that in early 2017 J-20s were announced to have "entered service" and that in early 2018 this year it was announced that J-20s had "entered combat service," I do believe that a baseline level of combat capability and mission readiness likely has been achieved.


In terms of being "deployed" -- I actually do not know which deployment to Tibet we are talking about. If anything I think the regular combat unit at 9th Brigade Wuhu rumoured to have J-20s would represent the regular line "combat ready unit". The aircraft at Cangzhou and Dingxin act in the role of tactics development, OPFOR and a strategic reserve.

I would consider 20 or more LRIP J-20s in service to be a significant number yes.

Okay so you say 18.
And Tibet.

Thank you.

Okay so I was behind the times. Thank you for the update.

Another 18.


18-20 units pretty consistent. Now you can't use the first prototypes for operations as those early early units are obviously inferior to the current units. Like the YF22 most of those early J20 are mounted on some pedestal or collecting dust in a hanger or parked in a Gobi Boneyard.
So 18-20 heck I'll be generous and say 24 initial production machines with some late prototypes being converable. Now compared to SU57 that's pretty good about double.

But are those fully missionized?
Deployed to Tibet or for a front line squadron okay but it's been a long time since the PLA actually was in a fight, so although they have been forward deployed does that mean that they are mission ready? Not nessisarily. They may need upgrades to get them mission ready, 20 "Significant" numbers? I would bet that those two units would be part of the training and transition program for getting J20 up and running more than actually meant to fight anyone.

Still end result here is far more built than Russia which was my issue back then.

Now. "Significant" that's a bit of spin. It's a start. How about that?.

I think it’s fair to say that the J-20 currently in service are ready enough for the PLAAF to use them to conduct combat exercises and use that data to make operational and planning decisions. That sounds pretty operations ready to me.

 

[jobjed]

But are those fully missionized?
Deployed to Tibet or for a front line squadron okay but it's been a long time since the PLA actually was in a fight, so although they have been forward deployed does that mean that they are mission ready? Not nessisarily. They may need upgrades to get them mission ready, 20 "Significant" numbers? I would bet that those two units would be part of the training and transition program for getting J20 up and running more than actually meant to fight anyone.

Still end result here is far more built than Russia which was my issue back then.

Now. "Significant" that's a bit of spin. It's a start. How about that?.

Dingxin's unit is responsible for discovering the best ways to utilise the J-20 and other new types of PLA aircraft. They are not a training unit but an boundary-pushing unit. They define the PLAAF's cutting edge. There is no possible way they're equipped with non-combat-coded J-20s or any non-100% aircraft as that would compromise their mission. After all, how would they be able to discover the most effective ways of using equipment that not's ready to be used?

Cangzhou 3rd Regiment is a joint combat and training unit. And by training, I don't mean novices training to get their flight qualifications, I mean full-fledged pilots with years of operational experience who "train" by putting the cutting-edge tactics discovered by Dingxin into practice. Consider them the QA for the stuff that comes out of Dingxin; they make sure that whatever Dingxin thought up is actually feasible for a combat unit.

Both of these units have demanding requirements on their equipment's readiness levels. I don't believe for a second that aircraft fit to fly with both of them is anything other than fully combat ready.

If the J-20 was confined to Yanliang or Dingxin 78X6X experimentation units, sure, you could make the legitimate and probable case that J-20s have yet to achieve combat readiness, but since they're not confined to those units, you cannot make that case. All evidence, testimonies, and common sense tells us the J-20 is fully combat ready as of 2018.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I assume you're talking about the CB number? I am tempted to agree with you, however we do not know where CB starts from. If it starts from LRIP aircraft then it would certainly suggest that 18 aircraft would form the floor of current in service numbers.

However if CB starts from J-20 prototype/TD 1 (i.e.: 2001) then that changes things a little.

I highly doubt that it would start from the 2001 prototype. At the minimum it should start after the design has frozen.

 

[Deino]

Since some certain members seem to think rules and a moderator's request are only for others this post was once again deleted, the member warned and he won a one week vacation, free of SDF !

 

[SteelBird]

J-20 aerial refueling?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Nice buts looks CGI.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Confirmed to be cgi at least a month ago. Also, the refueling probe on the real J-20 is on the side of the nose.