J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by siegecrossbow, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    there once was a man from Nantucket.....
    Yeah no. Poems really? And a cartoon is a source of intelligence?
    Well the story around tells a story. That this is not a J20 parked in China and that it's a prop of some kind.
    Based on location we can have it as possibly being used by the US military for training.
    Yet cartoons and Poems... and its rare someone gets to build a 1:1 model.
    again cartoons and poems. Any one with some half added art skill can draw a cartoon of anything. And poems really?
    When you eliminate the impossible, what ever remains however improbable. When you guys get in cartoons and poems I tune you put as trying to get anything from that is like trying to base animal rights protests on Looney tunes.

    The blog did that because they were fact checking. They got a photo of something bordering on the impossible. They wanted to debunk it properly.
    Obviously if the US government had a J20 fighter it's unlikely it would be parked in Hilton head, Georga.
    Groom Lake Navada more likely.

    But context is for Kings.
    Their aim quality the context.
    If it Photoshop? No evidence, is it really in the US? Possible, is it actually what it seems to be. No. There is evidence of it being a fake. And in fact the title of the article is.

    What Appears To Be A Fake Chinese J-20 Allegedly Spotted At U.S. Base
    now why was it their why build it?
    Answer 1) Hollywood. In the 1980s for the original Red Dawn movie a prop builder constructed mockups and working Vizmods of tanks planes and aircraft of the Soviet union. The CIA happened to catch them in a overflight of Calafornia. They were fired to use them for generating training films.
    Answer 2) training. It give someone a.felling of what it might be to stand next to a J20.
     
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  2. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Lieutenant General

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    You're not new to PLA watching, you must know how the grapevine works.


    ???
    You must be joking. The "cartoons and poems" aren't made by nobodies with no track records. We take them seriously because they are often the first way of leaking new developments. We got cartoons and drawings of the J-10B TVC demonstrator before we got first pictures of it, and certainly far ahead of its revelation at Zhuhai. Same for J-20 2021 with WS-10 engines. And so on.



    I believe the lengths they went to debunking it were excessive.
    It gave unnecessary credence to the very possibility that the thing in the photo was a real J-20.
     
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  3. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Lieutenant General

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    I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why the model is there.

    But it should've been made fairly obvious early on in the article that it was just a model and a pretty poor one at that. The fact that they went to lengths to even ask Deino what he thought it was.... makes me roll my eyes a little.
     
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  4. latenlazy
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    latenlazy Colonel

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    ...It’s a cultural thing. Recall for example the poem we got about an engine with the codename “Mt. Everest”. A few days later we get pictures of a celebration banner for an event related to an engine code named “Mt. Everest.” It’s one way to be cryptic about information in Chinese.

    When a cartoon shows us a TVC J-10 undergoing testing way before we get pictures, with the nozzle design in the cartoon exactly identical to the pictures, and another one from the same cartoonist shows sawtooth nozzles installed on the J-20 way before we get pictures, and the nozzle design is exactly identical to the pictures, and the same cartoonist also shares another cartoon that shows prototype 2021 with the same sawtooth nozzles, way before we get pictures of 2021 with the same nozzles, it behooves us to take what this particular cartoonist has to share seriously.

    So yes, poems and cartoons.

    I highly doubt possibility 2, seeing as a poorly made physically inaccurate mock up doesn’t work too well if your objective is realistic training.
     
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  5. latenlazy
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    latenlazy Colonel

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    The worst thing about the article was that most of it was rhetorical filler written to hype up a mystery whodunit story rather than provide any useful reporting or analysis. It was a puff piece.
     
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  6. Air Force Brat
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    Air Force Brat Brigadier

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    Nah! it is pretty strange, while full scale mock-ups are quite common in China, they are usually only used in the West as mock-ups to use around the carrier for training in staging aircraft on the carrier for operations/maintenance/stowing,, so it is a mystery and no forthcoming explanation??? ie that's only a "weather balloon"

    and while its clear that its not the real thing, its close enough for a quick glance, not bad at all?? and who else would you ask here that is internationally recognized and will give you a straight answer?.. Deino

    but, since I'm here to provide the comic relief?? maybe its an RCS simulator???

    or better yet, maybe the squadron giant barrel smoker/Barbe Que grill???? LOL
     
  7. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    The article insinuates that the US stole it Firefox style. Why steal it risking WWIII unless the J-20 was a superior stealth fighter to anything the US or anyone else in the world has hence why they would? They wouldn't be stealing an inferior aircraft... When you see mockups of Western fighters in China, the automatic assumption is China is stealing great American designs for themselves. The fact is someone bothered to make a mockup either because they admire the J-20 or they see it as enough a threat to make a mockup in order to analyze it. That offended someone for them to turn lemons into lemonade and suggest it was stolen from China in order to save face.

    Anybody watch the TV show MacGyver? They had an episode where the characters wanted to extort a Russian arms dealer by threatening to tell the Chinese he stole one of only two J-20s China had. Life imitates kindergarten art.
     
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  8. Inst
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    Inst Senior Member

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    Easy way to tell it's a fake, the actual J-20 has pronounced curves on its main body trailing to its rear, probably for aerodynamic effects.

    Most likely outcome is that this is either an American knock-off built from hacked plans, an American vis-mod of an existing aircraft (then which one is it? an F-15? An F-18?), or a plain model.

    2 seems most likely, considering that it looks as though the aircraft is operable.
     
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  9. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Lieutenant General

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    to anyone who's been following J-20 for even a few years (let alone from following J-20 since it was known as J-XX), it obviously isn't a real aircraft.

    This entire article is just so jarring the way that it doesn't immediately just start off by acknowledging that it is obviously a poorly made model.
    Calling it a fake is almost insulting to the reader's intelligence (I exaggerate here) because using that word makes it seem like there was even a hint of a possibility that it could have been perceived as real.
     
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  10. Inst
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    Inst Senior Member

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    Well, looking at it again, it's not really likely to be a vis-mod given the crudeness of the replica skin; it's probably not flyable. So probably a target dummy for bombing practice, which would explain the crudeness (i.e, minimize costs).
     
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