J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by siegecrossbow, Sep 4, 2017.

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  1. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    Yes, I certainly don't want to debate the exact influence of aerodynamics, drag and so on either.

    However, I do think that there is a case to be made that we cannot gauge J-20's "agility" (whether it's your definition of agility or your definition of maneuverability) merely by using the relationship of J-20's thrust and empty weight compared with J-10's thrust and empty weight, because of the aforementioned aerodynamics and drag factors, but also because J-20's usual combat weight and J-10's usual combat weight will likely be quite significantly different relative to each other's own respective empty weights.


    In other words, even if we leave aside the aerodynamic design differences and drag w/ combat load differences between the two aircraft (which IMO are big confounding factors), the fact that both aircraft's respective combat weights will likely be quite different relative to their empty weights means we can't extrapolate the thrust/weight ratio of thrust/empty weight to scale the same way for each aircraft's thrust/combat weight...
    ... that means simply comparing thrust to weight ratio is likely insufficient to explain Li Gang's statement of J-20 having similar "agility" to J-10.
     
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  2. shifty_ginosaji
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    shifty_ginosaji Just Hatched
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    'PL-15A' wingkit and trimming the missile diameter a little may just do it.

    This depends on the configuration of the sensor and the specifics of the motor though. Little changes to complex hardware rarely only require little work.
     
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  3. siegecrossbow
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    siegecrossbow Brigadier
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  4. Hendrik_2000
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    Here is Li Gang interview with Xinhua news agency
    http://www.xinhuanet.com//mil/2018-11/08/c_129988418.htm
    Interview with 歼-20 first flight test pilot Li Gang: Secret 歼-20 test flight wonderful story
    I want to comment
    November 08, 2018 08:37:40 Source: Xinhua News Agency
    [​IMG]

    歼-20 first flight test pilot Li Gang at the press conference (photo taken on November 6).

    Xinhua News Agency, Guangzhou, November 7th: Interview with 歼-20 first flight test pilot Li Gang: revealing the wonderful story behind the 歼-20 test flight

    Xinhua News Agency reporter Li Xueyong, Huang Ming, Huang Shubo

    At the 12th Zhuhai Air Show, the 歼-20 three-machine formation, which was unveiled with the "new painting, new formation, new attitude", is undoubtedly the biggest "attraction" brought to the audience by this year's air show.

    歼-20 From the previous air show two-machine formation more than 1 minute of "stunning a glimpse", to the current three-aircraft formation ignited the audience climax, always let the public full of expectations. On the 7th, Li Gang, the winner of the Air Force's "Golden Medal of the Meritorious Flying Personnel Medal of Honor", accepted an interview with Xinhua News Agency on the 7th and elaborated on the wonderful story behind the 歼-20 test flight.

    歼-20 first flight success time: just made up eight "one"

    On January 11, 2011, the Chinese 歼-20 stealth fighter was successfully flying in Chengdu. As a new generation of stealth fighters in China, the J-20 opened the "20" era of the Chinese Air Force and also announced the arrival of the "Invisible Era."

    Recalling the moment seven years ago, Li Gang is still difficult to hide. "As a test pilot, I was lucky enough to be able to fly the 歼-20 verification machine."

    At 1:11 pm on January 11, 2011, Li Gang took the flight and took off.

    "Time is just eight 'one'!" Li Gang said that time is purely coincidental. The first flight plan scheduled for the 7th was postponed to 11th due to weather conditions in Chengdu.

    At 13:11 on the same day, Li Gang took the flight and took off. For this historical moment, Li Gang, a soldier, is more willing to understand it as 1:11 pm, just to make up eight "ones" - "I feel proud." Li Gang said.

    China's most fantastic fighter: "Information is in front of you, control is on your fingertips"

    Asked about the driving experience of the 歼-20, Li Gang used two words with unlimited imagination to describe: "Dream!"

    The cockpit of the 歼-20 is not only spacious and simple, but also has a reasonable layout and a very comfortable driving experience. It is called “the most dreamy fighter” by China.

    "All those who have seen the 歼-20 cockpit will sigh: so neat, there are so few electric switches!" Li Gang said that in the cockpit of the 歼-20, both soft and hard switches are very modern.

    Li Gang said that the cockpit of the 歼-20, no matter what the electric switch, knows what it is for according to the switch; when you fly at night, you know what the electric switch is, and it has a good error-proof design. “Operation is like playing games on a mobile phone, from launching a target to launching a missile very fast.”

    A pilot once described the experience of driving the 歼-20, said that the integrated LCD screen, simple electric door switch ... truly realized that "information is in front of you, control is on the fingertips."

    "Maybe many sci-fi things in reality are becoming reality through technology." Li Gang said.

    Cockpit layout: the test cockpit "painted" on the drawings

    Li Gang said that the cockpit layout is very important for an airplane. The cockpit design of the 歼-20 was called “the best office” by Li Gang. The success of the cockpit was due to the in-depth participation of the 试-20 chief designer and the Chinese Academy of Sciences academician Yang Wei.

    “Yang Wei sent us a lot of blank cockpit maps, gave a lot of small pictures of the switch, let us experience it, and put the corresponding switch on the position that we think is reasonable.” Li Gang said, if everyone posted In one position, the explanations are consistent; if they are inconsistent, they will meet for discussion.

    In Li Gang’s impression, such discussions have gone through at least five rounds. “Finally, all the cockpit layouts are a coordinated result.”

    From the drawings drawn by the test flight team, to the wooden cockpit, to the metal cockpit... The designer and the test pilots docked over and over again, and refined the nuances to become the most sci-fi fighter cockpit in China.

    Design concept: Agility is comparable to the 歼-10, the first use of sidebar operation?

    As China's first stealth fighter, the 歼-20 is inevitably compared with the “one generation below machine” 歼-10 in terms of maneuverability.

    Li Gang said that due to its stealth demand, the 歼-20 is much more complicated in designing the aerodynamic shape than the general aircraft. After the unremitting efforts of the design team, the 歼-20 has achieved excellent agility and handling, which is no different from the 歼-10.

    On the 6th flight demonstration in Zhuhai, the cool body of the 歼-20 three-machine formation pulled up a silver-white vortex in the azure sky, earning the attention and tears of the audience, and the agility is self-evident.

    “The 歼-20 cockpit also uses sidebar operation, which is also the first time in the history of Chinese fighters.” Li Gang introduced that this design concept has three advantages: one is that the pilot's vision is clearer; the other is to enhance the agility of the fighter; It is more conducive to the aircraft to carry out large overload flight.

    Of course, as China's first stealth fighter, the most attention is still its stealth performance. "Stealth performance is very good!" Li Gang said that as a fighter, stealth performance is critical to combat use.

    From the verification machine to the equipment combat force: thousands of flights

    "It is not easy to equip an aircraft with troops. There are thousands of flights in the middle." Li Gang introduced that from the first flight of the 歼-20 verification machine in 2011 to the first flight of the prototype in 2014, it will be officially installed at the beginning of this year. The combat troops, 歼-20, lasted for 7 years and completed the complete process from the first flight to the technical appraisal to the equipment combat troops.

    Since 2011, Li Gang has been responsible for the 歼-20 technical model in the Air Force Test Flight Bureau and led the flight test team to complete the 歼-20 test.

    "A lot of new technologies of the 歼-20, our country is the first time to adopt." Li Gang said, "In just a few years, I have been so proud of the fact that I have completed such a large number of test flights and equipped the troops so quickly and formed combat capabilities. glory.
     
    #3984 Hendrik_2000, Nov 13, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  5. kurutoga
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    kurutoga Junior Member
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    The video is here: http://tv.cctv.com/2018/11/13/VIDEN3wSfbIijFvWWWQntMEI181113.shtml

    the oil probe is at 8:27. If you go to 8:12, the chief designer said the following: J-20 is designed with three main characteristics, stealth, long range strike capability, and information (he is referring to sensor fusion and info integration and processing). But you can't show any of these in an air show.
     
  6. tony0989
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    tony0989 New Member
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    Yang Wei also mentioned in th news that
    Exactly, that's what she said! I also watched the news today.
     
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  7. siegecrossbow
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    A more accurate translation would be long range combat.

    What he said reminded me of one F-22 aviator who told his interviewer that there are lot of capabilities with the plane that he couldn't show at an airshow.
     
  8. Hyperwarp
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    If you fold the fins like that - link, you can just about squeeze in 6x PL-15. It is going to be a really tight squeeze. Missile body itself has no issue fitting in.

    67c53c97gy1fx6pgu8vq5j21lk12d1ky copy_cleaned_cleaned.jpg
     
  9. supercat
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    ^ Wouldn't shortening the missile and reducing the diameter of the missile be easier to achieve? AIM-120 is about 15mm shorter than PL-12 with a diameter that is 23 mm smaller than PL-12 (180mm vs 203mm). I guess it all depends on China's propellant research. AIM-120 packs about the same power in a volume that's only about 80% of PL-12's.
     
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  10. SteelBird
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    Just a thought, if they can make retractable fins, more missiles should be able to store inside the bay.
     
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