J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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@davidau, I'm really slowly loosing my patience and all my contenance
Are you really that "XXXXX" (and I don't want to use that word) or only do you try to play that role?? You MUST know why those post were deleted and even more who and most of all not @by78 reposted your images, but You reposted images that were already posted by @Hendrik_2000 at #2483 and @Jura at #2486.
Man, grow up or I promise you your days here are limited! Your behaviour is MOST annoying.
Deino
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In principle you are correct, simply because we are NOT at war with China, so NO we won't be penetrating Chinese airspace!
The F-22 and F-35 are quite capable of taking out surface to air missile systems and or defending aircraft, as long as you have fuel and weapons. The US has operated the F-22's and the Israeli's have flown at least two combat missions with the F-35 against heavily defended territory with Soviet surface to air missiles in the Middle East.
There seems to be a presumption that opposing 5 Gens could actually find and target on another?? I rather doubt that's likely, unless its a gun shot, but in theory the aircraft that has the lowest RCS would have a significant advantage, on the 5 Gen that has a higher RCS?? I find some of our presumptions humorous.... to say the least, some of these things we Gentlemen of the Sino Defense Forum will just have to "wait and see"..
If there were a target of great significance, I can assure you the F-22 and F-35 are quite capable of penetrating heavily defended airspace, lots of US Airmen have, and will fly those "Suicide Missions" if duty calls,,, we should all pray that never happens, really, its utter foolishness to assume that any one of the big three would survive unscathed if the SHTF, that Gentlemen is the most ignorant of all the presumptions we hear??
Going back to the statement that Vesicles made, the J-20 is offensive, as well as defensive, and were the US, Russia, orJapan to attempt to penetrate Chinese airspace with hostile intent, the J-20 would be at a significant home team advantage against 4 or 4+ Gen aircraft, and it does likely pose a significant threat to opfor 5 Gens as well, but finding and developing a target track on those same aircraft will be very difficult.
The air defense systems the F-22 and F-35 have flown against were exactly how old?
antiterror13
Brigadier
Well, even the US was not at war with China during 1961 to 1974, the US (via ROC) indeed flew the U-2 deep into PRC territory, 220 missions. The US just stop it after PRC had the capability to shot down the U-2 (5 were shot down by PRC SAM).
So, your argument doesn't sell. I am pretty sure if the PRC SAM and defence system were so poor, the US would fly the fighters regularly over PRC airspace and with no hesitation doing so, with whatever reasons (made up) would be
F-22, F-35, B-2 very likely can be shot down if they are well within Chinese or Russian airspaces. These nations and perhaps others, have already had more than 4 decades to counter very slowly improving stealth technologies. Even if they use low frequency long wavelength radars to determine general locations, they can use fighters to intercept them. IR sensors are good enough to detect VLO from enough range now. VLO remain important assets though. To still believe they can fly around Russia or China with impunity is at least 20 year old thinking.
In a situation where US uses these VLOs to say take out China's bases and islands, or even just SAMs but this will certainly be met with some reaction. Taking out US bases all over the region is very simple if they wished to retaliate in that way. But this will lead to escalations. US knows this so they will only ever talk and threaten. As soon as they start shooting at Chinese SAMs with F-22s or anything else, there will be consequences for them as well. So yes F-22 can take out SAMs just like an F-16 can take out SAMs. But they won't or there won't be many if any F-22s left in the world.
In a situation where US uses these VLOs to say take out China's bases and islands, or even just SAMs but this will certainly be met with some reaction. Taking out US bases all over the region is very simple if they wished to retaliate in that way. But this will lead to escalations. US knows this so they will only ever talk and threaten. As soon as they start shooting at Chinese SAMs with F-22s or anything else, there will be consequences for them as well. So yes F-22 can take out SAMs just like an F-16 can take out SAMs. But they won't or there won't be many if any F-22s left in the world.
D
Deleted member 13312
Guest
Dear god, why is this issue being brought up again ? It is common knowledge that media outlets often recycle articles from other publications to save time and money. This is called circular reporting.'Not So Invisible After All': Su-30 Manages to Detect Top Chinese Stealth Jet
>> Chengdu J-20 is a 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.
Yes Stealth doesn’t means invisibility or immortality, but for a Su-30MKI to detect J-20 with its conventional Radar is a very strong claim without any firm bases that is hard to believe for many.
Outer Dynamics of J-20 are clearly stealthy, the Aircraft has a considerably low RCS, and is also Coated with Radar Absorbent material.
As per the details many Analysts belonging to international defence community consider these claims baseless and false. <<
And with Sputnik news, I am doubly doubting their validity as it is quite clear that it is becoming a advertising outlet for the Russian military industry to hawk their wares, and there is nothing better than to slander other potential competitors to shore up their own products (hint hint, the Su-57).
The USA will never just fly somehwere without flying SEAD missions first and in cooperation with dedicated EW aircraft. That's actually what they were training for in these Red Flag excercises - and not that often quoted "killed enemy before they COULD even see them" nonsense by fanboys.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The US isn’t at war with Syria, yet F22s are flying all over Syrian airspace.
In a stealth on stealth fight, the detection range differences between the J20 and F22 to each other’s radars are likely to be minimal. The F22 might have a slight RCS advantage in a head to head approach; but the J20 has a much bigger and newer radar.
However, if F22s were trying to penetrate Chinese airspace, Chinese land based VLW/ULW anti-stealth radars will come into play to give the J20 a decisive advantage.
Anti-stealth radars, while not able to provide effective targeting support for a long range missile shots, should be able to provide locational and heading data accurate enough to allow the J20 to know where to look, and at what vector to approach to be coming in from outside of the F22’s radar scan window, and also avoiding the F22’s lowest RCS angles to maximise their chances.
Let’s also not forget that the J20 has an IRST while the F22 does not.
The F22 would also have support of its own, like friendly AWACS, which is why such an approach is unlikely to work with conventional fighters; as US AWACS will pick them up trying to flank the F22s and alert the raptors to the danger.
With J20s, AWACS detection ranges are going to be massively reduced, and with existing American AWACS not designed with counter stealth in mind, so it makes this strategy viable and maybe even effective.
In a stealth on stealth fight, the detection range differences between the J20 and F22 to each other’s radars are likely to be minimal. The F22 might have a slight RCS advantage in a head to head approach; but the J20 has a much bigger and newer radar.
However, if F22s were trying to penetrate Chinese airspace, Chinese land based VLW/ULW anti-stealth radars will come into play to give the J20 a decisive advantage.
Anti-stealth radars, while not able to provide effective targeting support for a long range missile shots, should be able to provide locational and heading data accurate enough to allow the J20 to know where to look, and at what vector to approach to be coming in from outside of the F22’s radar scan window, and also avoiding the F22’s lowest RCS angles to maximise their chances.
Let’s also not forget that the J20 has an IRST while the F22 does not.
The F22 would also have support of its own, like friendly AWACS, which is why such an approach is unlikely to work with conventional fighters; as US AWACS will pick them up trying to flank the F22s and alert the raptors to the danger.
With J20s, AWACS detection ranges are going to be massively reduced, and with existing American AWACS not designed with counter stealth in mind, so it makes this strategy viable and maybe even effective.
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