J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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Deino

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Chengdu J-20 to become multi-role platform

Beijing will evolve the Chengdu J-20 fighter into roles well beyond aerial supremacy.

The aircraft’s primary mission for the time being is “making way for other aircraft in an air battle,” says Zhang Hao, who heads an air force flight test centre.

Zhang made the remarks in a story carried by Beijing’s official China Daily news organ.

The type will be developed into variants and will also allow for the opening of research into a “sixth generation fighter,” says Yang Wei, a deputy director of science and technology at AVIC.

"We are not complacent about what we have achieved,” Yang is quoted as saying. “We will develop the J-20 into a large family and keep strengthening its information-processing and intelligent capacities. At the same time, we will think about our next-generation combat plane to meet the nation's future requirements," Yang added that the J-20 is “the best fighter in China, so it would be used in the most crucial moments during a war.”

The 418-word story is surprisingly candid about the J-20, which has been shrouded in secrecy since it first appeared on social media in 2010. The type made its maiden flight in 2011. At the 2016 iteration of Airshow China in Zhuhai, two examples flew above the crowd at the show’s opening, but AVIC officials declined to discuss the aircraft. The China Daily story, however, says the type was “de-classified” in November 2016.

A recent, seperate two-line story from state news agency Xinhua proclaimed that the type had been commissioned into combat service, but gave few details.

Apart from a plan to develop more J-20 variants, the story reveals that the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) will not allow exports of the type. It also revealed that the type has participated in beyond-visual-range (BVR) test engagements.

It does not reveal how many aircraft have been produced, how many will be operated, or the specific missions for which the J-20 will be developed.

Observers have suggested that a key mission for the type in the aerial supremacy role will be not just engaging enemy combat aircraft, but attacking critical support aircraft such as tankers and airborne early warning & control (AEW&C) aircraft. To this end China is developing the PL-21, a ramjet-powered missile guided by an active radar. Performance is believed to be comparable to the long-range MBDA Meteor.

A guide to possible missions is provided by Lockheed Martin’s mission list for the F-35. Apart from the air-to-air mission, it says the type is suitable for electronic attack, air-to-surface warfare, and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR). The F-22, originally developed as a fighter, is also capable of electronic attack and can carry bombs.

The report claims that the J-20 is the third fifth generation fighter to enter service after the F-22 and F-35. In addition, it reiterated that AVIC’s FC-31 is aimed at the international market, but gave no other details about development plans for this aircraft.

"In the past, we had to follow others' paths when it came to designing military aircraft because our research and development capabilities were primitive in this regard, but now we have become capable of designing and making what we want to have," said Yang.

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An interview in China Daily with an air force test centre head, seems to indicate that further multi-role developments of the J-20 are likely and confirms that the type will not be exported, but no details were given.
Also Flight quotes an interesting part from the interview, "In the past, we had to follow others' paths when it came to designing military aircraft because our research and development capabilities were primitive in this regard, but now we have become capable of designing and making what we want to have." This may be confirmation that the J-20 did not rely on imported designs/expertise, though perhaps a bit disingenuous given number of programmes undertaken since the 1980s (Super-7, JF-17, Xian JH-7, J-10 etc.) which must have helped the learning curve somewhat.
 

taxiya

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Hmmm nvm. I thought they were painted differently than the previous batch of production planes, but I just double checked the earlier batches and realized that the ventral fins are all painted in a solid color on those too. I guess I just never noticed.
Actually, this one and the previous ones are all painted in a way that the edges are darker than the surface. The reason that this one seems to be in a solid color is the trick of light. I increased contrast and saturation in Photoshop to bring up the difference of the colors and shades. See the red circle.

76232.jpg

However, there was a change of construction and painting of the ventral fins from 2016 and onwards .
2015
2015 ground side 2.jpg J-20_2016.jpg
 

taxiya

Brigadier
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Has this subject been discussed? See the red circle in the picture. Any guess of the copper colored material and its purpose?

j20-primer 2017-11-10_6 (1).jpg


I am thinking of the recent revealed "metamaterial's application of stealth". See here
at 43 minutes. One can see the color of the material is copper like, the shade goes from lighter copper (brass) to pure copper (redish) depending on the environment (color temperature).

The reason that I made the suggestion is because this "metamaterial" is in mass production as of now. The CCTV episode is broadcasted this month, given the fact that there need some months in producing it, the mass production must has been reached at the latest in end of 2017. Small scale production trail should have started some time in late 2016 or early 2017. So I guess the recent prototypes should have been covered with this material (in plate) partially or fully.

One thing I don't get (and need your suggestion) is why not cover the DSI bump with one piece (or one full paint/coat), why the stripe?
 

Yodello

Junior Member
Registered Member
Has this subject been discussed? See the red circle in the picture. Any guess of the copper colored material and its purpose?

View attachment 45760


I am thinking of the recent revealed "metamaterial's application of stealth". See here
at 43 minutes. One can see the color of the material is copper like, the shade goes from lighter copper (brass) to pure copper (redish) depending on the environment (color temperature).

The reason that I made the suggestion is because this "metamaterial" is in mass production as of now. The CCTV episode is broadcasted this month, given the fact that there need some months in producing it, the mass production must has been reached at the latest in end of 2017. Small scale production trail should have started some time in late 2016 or early 2017. So I guess the recent prototypes should have been covered with this material (in plate) partially or fully.

One thing I don't get (and need your suggestion) is why not cover the DSI bump with one piece (or one full paint/coat), why the stripe?
I will not name any names, But just wait for the naysayers with their usual garbage to pooh-pooh any suggestion similar to the one you made. According to them, there is now way, nope, never, not a chance in hell that China can do something that the USA'ns have never done ( Let's stop calling them Americans and start calling them USA'ns because America is a vast continent with many nations and many cultures. It is an insult to insinuate or associate every American
with the USA).
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
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Makes sense. These days no fighter is single role. after all these machines cost as much as a hundred million US dollars a pop. might as well get your money's worth weather that be Dollars Euros or RMB.
So this means that these machines will likely start trailing bombs and Air to ground missiles. Also this makes that electro optic array on the underside of the nose make a lot more sense.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Has this subject been discussed? See the red circle in the picture. Any guess of the copper colored material and its purpose?

View attachment 45760


I am thinking of the recent revealed "metamaterial's application of stealth". See here
at 43 minutes. One can see the color of the material is copper like, the shade goes from lighter copper (brass) to pure copper (redish) depending on the environment (color temperature).

The reason that I made the suggestion is because this "metamaterial" is in mass production as of now. The CCTV episode is broadcasted this month, given the fact that there need some months in producing it, the mass production must has been reached at the latest in end of 2017. Small scale production trail should have started some time in late 2016 or early 2017. So I guess the recent prototypes should have been covered with this material (in plate) partially or fully.

One thing I don't get (and need your suggestion) is why not cover the DSI bump with one piece (or one full paint/coat), why the stripe?

You mean this sheet?
upload_2018-3-15_20-54-16.png
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Has this subject been discussed? See the red circle in the picture. Any guess of the copper colored material and its purpose?

View attachment 45760


I am thinking of the recent revealed "metamaterial's application of stealth". See here
at 43 minutes. One can see the color of the material is copper like, the shade goes from lighter copper (brass) to pure copper (redish) depending on the environment (color temperature).

The reason that I made the suggestion is because this "metamaterial" is in mass production as of now. The CCTV episode is broadcasted this month, given the fact that there need some months in producing it, the mass production must has been reached at the latest in end of 2017. Small scale production trail should have started some time in late 2016 or early 2017. So I guess the recent prototypes should have been covered with this material (in plate) partially or fully.

One thing I don't get (and need your suggestion) is why not cover the DSI bump with one piece (or one full paint/coat), why the stripe?

I think you are on to something, considering your background. Note the report said they have started mass production.
 

Inst

Captain
The ventral strakes aren't a solid color, there's a shift in the color toward the edges. I guess they have a heavier RAM coating than the main of the wing, due to their smaller size making them more vulnerable to half-wavelength resonance.
 

Inst

Captain
The question is more why they'd slap metamaterials onto the intake coating instead of the entirety of the plane. Or perhaps there's something about the DSI that requires heavier coatings.

One other possibility is that the entire aircraft is coated in meta-materials, and the obvious meta-materials on the intake is not presence, but absence. That would explain the stripe: the stripe represents the area where reflections would be most problematic, whereas the rest of the intake can skip heavier coatings for cost / weight reasons.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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The question is more why they'd slap metamaterials onto the intake coating instead of the entirety of the plane. Or perhaps there's something about the DSI that requires heavier coatings.

One other possibility is that the entire aircraft is coated in meta-materials, and the obvious meta-materials on the intake is not presence, but absence. That would explain the stripe: the stripe represents the area where reflections would be most problematic, whereas the rest of the intake can skip heavier coatings for cost / weight reasons.

I think you and others are over-interpreting too much in this change of colour ... we also know some in grey and others in plain yellow in that area.

I must admit I cannot explain that but during the F-22's phase of production the colour of several parts and their primer changed or was different. I don't think that in most cases the explanation was much more simple than to assume they introduced some sort of new material.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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