J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[Hendrik_2000]

The more interesting article is the one where the China News Agency is talking about China sharing the J-20's technologies with Russia. China, for what it's worth, does not have research efficiency: it takes a large budget for Chinese research agencies to get anywhere. Russia has tons of experience, but they're broke. Would be interesting to see China trade notes on the J-20 with the Russians.

And why should China share hard earned technology with Russia. Don't forget the Russian tore all the documentation when relation goes south in the 60's forcing the Chinese to finish half way project themselves.
The Chinese is more than nice to give them lifeboat when Soviet Union implode without the sale of SU 27 to China Soviet defense industry will be gone forever

You have been bad mouthing Chinese research since years ago in CDF Now we know that they can do first class research by themselves. Your dissing of Chinese achievement is flat wrong

 

[vesicles]

The more interesting article is the one where the China News Agency is talking about China sharing the J-20's technologies with Russia. China, for what it's worth, does not have research efficiency: it takes a large budget for Chinese research agencies to get anywhere. Russia has tons of experience, but they're broke. Would be interesting to see China trade notes on the J-20 with the Russians.

Not sure what this part means... Are you implying that China is less efficient in research because their budget is larger? I'm not sure if I understand the logic behind this...

As far as I know, China churns out new tech much faster than others. Of course, you can attribute "foreign help" to that. No matter what, I don't see any evidence of China spending more but getting less out (which is what "less efficient" means)...

 

[kurutoga]

I see that this is Asia Times, which is Hong Kong based so ok. But the point still stands that if an American reporter read this paper and regurgitated it for US media, he would likely not be mindful enough to note that ton in this case, is tonne and thus 1,000kg instead of 2,000 pounds, which is what ton means in the US. There is a much slimmer chance that he could dig to the original source and note that J-20 could weigh up to just under 16,000kg. So, as I said before, this is how crazy rumors start.

But I am making the assumption that his source is the same as ours. If it was independently obtained from ours, then it could not only support the claim we previously saw but it could mean that J-20 is actually very close to 15 tonnes rather than 16.

Yes, it will be confusing to a reader in US or in UK. Considering the 15-tonne class claim was from a single source, I agree with you it needs further verification.

 

[kurutoga]

Not sure what this part means... Are you implying that China is less efficient in research because their budget is larger? I'm not sure if I understand the logic behind this...

As far as I know, China churns out new tech much faster than others. Of course, you can attribute "foreign help" to that. No matter what, I don't see any evidence of China spending more but getting less out (which is what "less efficient" means)...

This concept, "research efficiency" is very hard to measure. Time? there is also the number and education levels of people involved. Now considering most recent military projects in US are either canceled or extensively over budget, I don't think US is at a position to teach others about how to raise research efficiency.

 

[vesicles]

This concept, "research efficiency" is very hard to measure. Time? there is also the number and education levels of people involved. Now considering most recent military projects in US are either canceled or extensively over budget, I don't think US is at a position to teach others about how to raise research efficiency.

Not sure why you brought up the US... what I said has nothing to do with the US...

 

[kurutoga]

Not sure why you brought up the US... what I said has nothing to do with the US...

Sorry for the confusion. I tried to use US as a measuring stick. But I think I intended to reply the message above yours and pressed the wrong button

 

[subotai1]

The more interesting article is the one where the China News Agency is talking about China sharing the J-20's technologies with Russia. China, for what it's worth, does not have research efficiency: it takes a large budget for Chinese research agencies to get anywhere. Russia has tons of experience, but they're broke. Would be interesting to see China trade notes on the J-20 with the Russians.

Highly doubtful that China would share anything with Russia. Russia is a regional and global competitor as well as a nation desperate for cash and willing to do anything to get ahead. China knows well that any "secret" shared with Russia won't stay secret for long. Russia is like that girl you tell something to to make sure the word gets around.

As for research efficiency, China has started to take a lead in a number of fields, including a lot of the technology that goes into stealth fighters, if not the finished product itself.

 

[FORBIN]

Interesting article about J 20 Turn out it can be parked at ordinary hangar with no climatic control unlike F35

Inaccurate F-22 and 35 are also parked in shelters/ ordinary hangar only but for different reasons climatics to Elmendorf/Alaska in hangar what B-2 need exist also mobile inflatable structures

 

[Air Force Brat]

Inaccurate F-22 and 35 are also parked in shelters/ ordinary hangar only but for different reasons climatics to Elmendorf/Alaska in hangar what B-2 need exist also mobile inflatable structures

LOL, no limitations on J-20's use on an aircraft carrier! Kool, so you're going to link and quote at length, an article which proclaims the J-20 is also capable of being utilized on China's aircraft carriers,, that's even more bizarre than the J-20's gross weight is 15 tons, whatever makes you guys happy I guess??

If it's pro-China, it must be true, and Forbin is right the F-22 and F-35s will be kept nice and warm ready to scramble, rather than attempt to start and launch in a "cold soaked" condition! The Russians would love to have the facilities that the US has in order to "keep those birds ready", China does appear to be building hangars to facilitate keeping the J-20 dry and ice free,,, deicing takes LOTS of time and money, in an Arctic environment, where aircraft may accumulate snow and ice, you've got to be very careful, even taking a wet aircraft outside can cause control surfaces and actuators to "freeze".

 

[Inst]

Let's put it this way; China has the world's second highest R&D spending, with a dollar value of research greater than Japan and South Korea combined. Yet what does China get for it? An industry rife with plagiarized and derivative papers. It's not something intrinsic in Chinese culture, but it does represent a lower level of research and development experience.

About the J-20 itself, its innovations are somewhat subtler than on the PAK-FA. The PAK-FA has distinctive LEVCONs, an aircraft first, and it uses non-centered TVC engines which enhance its maneuverability over more conventional TVC designs. The J-20, on the other hand, uses a unique double-LERX canard-delta design, which is either a kitchen-sink approach to aerodynamic design or a development of existing long-coupled canard designs. That said, LERXed canard deltas exist on the Rafale, although the Eurofighter's LERX upgrade noticeably came after the J-20 came out. More interesting is the external rail on the J-20's side bays, but if it's used only for SRAAM, as opposed to jammer pods, IRST pods, gun pods, and dazzler pods, things for which we've had no evidence, it'd be quite a disappointment.