J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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Blitzo

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The question is whether it occurred BVR or WVR. WVR, it would be awesome because it proves the J-20 is capable WVR, which it would require that the J-20 be agile.

in addition to what latenlazy wrote, HOBS SRAAMs would also play a difference in WVR combat.

And I think it would be better for all of us if we didn't talk about that "10:1" result as if it is fact. While I'm sure that J-20s would cream all the current fighters in the air force's inventory, any talk about the "result" should be accompanied by a disclaimer of "if this is true".
 

Inst

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What I'm most interested in is ITR, which the J-20's decisive WVR performance proves. WVR, most seekers are IR, the J-10B and J-11B both have IRST, the F-22 is purportedly IR detectable at 120 km, so we're looking at a real WVR dogfight. For the J-20 to get 10-1 ratios shows that the J-20 is loosing both BVR and WVR missiles WVR.
 

Blitzo

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What I'm most interested in is ITR, which the J-20's decisive WVR performance proves. WVR, most seekers are IR, the J-10B and J-11B both have IRST, the F-22 is purportedly IR detectable at 120 km, so we're looking at a real WVR dogfight. For the J-20 to get 10-1 ratios shows that the J-20 is loosing both BVR and WVR missiles WVR.

Look, one day I'm sure we will be able to get footage of what J-20's top instantaneous turn rate may be, but I think trying to infer too much based on limited information -- which the supposed/claimed 10:0 kill ratio most definitely is -- and whether it included BVR or WVR only or both, is rather excessive.
 
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五角大楼的2011年中国报告就预估,歼-20将在2018年“最终成为中国人民解放军空军远程攻击和空袭突防的平台”。歼-20采用了单座、双发、全动双垂尾、鼓包式DSI进气道、上反鸭翼带尖拱边条的鸭式气动布局。机头、机身呈菱形,垂直尾翼向外倾斜,起落架舱门为锯齿边设计,侧弹舱采用创新结构,可将导弹发射挂架预先封闭于外侧。据称,在大规模“红剑”联合演习中,歼-20在空军模拟对抗现役所有三代机中大获全胜,以10: 0的绝对优势完胜歼-10、歼-11以及苏30。但国际战略研究中心报告认为,歼20在2018年之前不

"Pentagon's 2011 China report on the forecast, J-20 will be in 2018 "eventually become the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force long-range attack and air attack penetration platform." J-20 with a single seat, double hair, full move double vertical tail, drum package DSI inlet, on the anti-duck wing with a pointed arch side of the duck-style pneumatic layout. Nose, the body was diamonds, vertical tail tilt, landing gear door for the jagged design, side bomb bay with innovative structure, the missile launch pad can be pre-closed on the outside. Allegedly, in the large-scale "Red Sword" joint exercise, the J-20 in the Air Force simulation against active service all three generations of machines in the victory, to 10: 0 absolute advantage win -10, J-11 and Su 30. But the International Center for Strategic Studies reported that J-20 did not do before 2018"

原标题:中国第五代战机歼-20

仅用了6年零两个月的时间,中国第五代战机歼-20实现从首飞到服役,超越了美国F-22和F-35隐形战机的服役速度,而俄罗斯的第五代隐形战机T-50虽然早于歼-20一年首飞,却仍然没有完成试验定型。

美国国际战略研究中心4月发布的报告认为,中国歼-20完全属于第五代战斗机,这意味着整机达到隐身技术、超音速巡航速度、高度集成的航空电子设备的标准。据推测,该多用途隐形战机可以同时完成空军和海军航空兵的两种任务——空对空作战和空对地作战,将增强中国空军部队的整体作战能力。
"Original title: China's fifth generation fighter J-20

Only six years and two months time, China's fifth-generation fighter J-20 to achieve from the first flight to service, beyond the US F-22 and F-35 stealth fighter service speed, and Russia's fifth-generation invisible Fighter T-50 Although JF out of the year before the first flight, but still did not complete the test stereotypes.

The US International Strategy Research Center released a report in April that the Chinese F-20 is entirely the fifth generation fighter, which means that the machine to stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, highly integrated avionics standards. It is speculated that the multi-purpose stealth fighter can simultaneously complete the Air Force and Naval Air Force's two missions - air-to-air combat and air-to-ground operations, will enhance the overall combat capability of the Chinese Air Force."

歼-20是服役中国军队的第一种多用途隐形战机。根据五角大楼的观点,中国视隐身技术为空军转型的核心组成部分,从而“以防卫为主的空军向进攻和防御作战转变”。由于隐身设计和机动性的增强,歼-20可为中国提供多种以前没有的空战选择和投射能力的潜力。

五角大楼的2011年中国报告就预估,歼-20将在2018年“最终成为中国人民解放军空军远程攻击和空袭突防的平台”。歼-20采用了单座、双发、全动双垂尾、鼓包式DSI进气道、上反鸭翼带尖拱边条的鸭式气动布局。机头、机身呈菱形,垂直尾翼向外倾斜,起落架舱门为锯齿边设计,侧弹舱采用创新结构,可将导弹发射挂架预先封闭于外侧。据称,在大规模“红剑”联合演习中,歼-20在空军模拟对抗现役所有三代机中大获全胜,以10: 0的绝对优势完胜歼-10、歼-11以及苏30。但国际战略研究中心报告认为,歼20在2018年之前不可能具备完全的作战能力。

兰德智库援引五角大楼分析人士的话称,歼-20兼具隐身和远程导弹,对美国海军部队造成威胁,尤其是其远程海上打击能力对于美国海军水面舰艇的威胁,远大于歼-20相对F-22的空中优势。
"J-20 is the first multi-purpose stealth fighter to serve the Chinese army. According to the Pentagon's view, China's stealth technology as the core component of the transformation of the Air Force, so as to "defense-based air force to attack and defense combat change." As a result of stealth design and mobility enhancements, the F-20 can provide a wide range of potential for air combat options and projection capabilities that China did not previously have.

Pentagon's 2011 China report on the forecast, J-20 will be in 2018 "eventually become the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force long-range attack and air attack penetration platform." J-20 with a single seat, double hair, full move double vertical tail, drum package DSI inlet, on the anti-duck wing with a pointed arch side of the duck-style pneumatic layout. Nose, the body was diamonds, vertical tail tilt, landing gear door for the jagged design, side bomb bay with innovative structure, the missile launch pad can be pre-closed on the outside. Allegedly, in the large-scale "Red Sword" joint exercise, the J-20 in the Air Force simulation against active service all three generations of machines in the victory, to 10: 0 absolute advantage win -10, J-11 and Su 30. However, the International Center for Strategic Studies reports that the J-20 could not have full operational capability by 2018.

Rand think tank quoted the Pentagon analysts said, J-20 both stealth and long-range missiles, the US naval forces threat, especially its long-range sea strike capability for the US Navy surface ships threat, far greater than the F -20 relative F- 22 air superiority."

就歼-20是否能和F-22匹敌,美国空军参谋长戴维·戈德费恩曾表示,他只愿意拿歼-20和他飞过的F-117做比较,“驾驶F-117作战时,我会按一下‘隐身’键,所有的天线收回、座位下移以减小目标。F-117一旦进入战斗模式,就不会和其他飞机连通。”但戈德费恩将军承认,歼-20与军事网络相连,可实时访问卫星和无人机提供的数据。因此,对歼20应进行系统评估,就如F-35,不应该只作为一个独立的飞机来考量。

据外媒称,尽管面临部分技术问题,如WS-15发动机的可靠性、飞机控制系统、隐身涂层和机身材料,以及红外传感器等,中国仍然决定加速部署歼-20,是因为受到来自洛马公司制造的F-35的威胁。实际上,美国国家利益网指出,中国歼-20服役提速,在于对抗F-35,因此不可能直接模仿F-22,而且歼-20看上去要比F-22大,更可能是用来攻击加油机和预警机。

"On the F-20 and F-22 can match, the US Air Force Chief of Staff David
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has said he was only willing to take J-20 and he flew over the F-117 to compare, "driving F-117 combat , I will click on the 'stealth' button, all the antenna to recover, seat down to reduce the target.F-117 once into the battle mode, it will not communicate with other aircraft. "But General [
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admitted, -20 connected to the military network, real-time access to satellite and unmanned aerial vehicles to provide data. Therefore, the F-20 should be systematically evaluated, as the F-35, should not only be considered as an independent aircraft.

According to foreign media, despite the technical problems, such as WS-15 engine reliability, aircraft control systems, stealth coating and body materials, as well as infrared sensors, China still decided to accelerate the deployment of F -20, because by the Loma company made the threat of F-35. In fact, the US National Interest Network pointed out that the Chinese F-20 service speed, is against the F-35, it is impossible to imitate the F-22, and the J-20 looks more than the F-22, more likely to be used to attack Tanker and early warning aircraft."

五角大楼向美国国会提交的2016年度《中国军事与安全发展态势报告》中指出,中国是美国以外惟一同时拥有两种隐形战斗机的国家。中国寻求发展这些先进的飞机来提高其地区力量投射能力,和加强其打击区域的空军基地和设施的能力。

“澳大利亚空中力量”智库的佩洛西博士和科普博士认为,歼-20适合中国在“第一岛链”和“第二岛链”执行任务。据称,随着中国“小平台大预警”概念的提出和发展,运-20平台最早出现的改进型号极有可能就是继续的空中加油型,并且有可能和正式装备空军的伊尔-78 一样,采用俄制标准的空中加油设吊舱和受油管。作为一款“重型隐形战斗机”,歼20可搭载的弹药数量明显多于中型或轻型战斗机,单次出动的打击效能更佳。出于隐形性能的要求,战斗机所携带的弹药内置于机身弹舱。
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"The Pentagon submitted to the US Congress in 2016, "China's military and security development trend report" pointed out that China is the only outside the United States also has two stealth fighter countries. China seeks to develop these advanced aircraft to improve its regional power projection capabilities and to strengthen its ability to combat air bases and facilities in the region.

"Australian Air Force" think tank of Dr. Pelosi and Dr. Kop believes that the F -20 for China in the "first island chain" and "second island chain" to perform the task. Allegedly, with the Chinese "small platform early warning" concept of the proposed and development, Yun-20 platform, the first to improve the model is likely to continue the air refueling type, and may be equipped with the Air Force, like the Iraqi-78 , The use of Russian-made standard air refueling pod and by the tubing. As a "heavy stealth fighter", the F-20 can be equipped with more than the number of ammunition medium or light fighter, a single blow to the better performance. For the stealth performance requirements, fighters carried ammunition built in the fuselage cabin."
 
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Look, one day I'm sure we will be able to get footage of what J-20's top instantaneous turn rate may be, but I think trying to infer too much based on limited information -- which the supposed/claimed 10:0 kill ratio most definitely is -- and whether it included BVR or WVR only or both, is rather excessive.
let me add in Western exercises the side which "lost" often questions ROE (I don't think the side which "won" questions ROE though :) ... just to show what I mean:
Mar 31, 2016

time will tell, Brumby, just can't resist in this point:


Farnborough 2012: "Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch" Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska
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LOL!
where's
Brumby
by the way??
Brumby was last seen:
41w 1d ago
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
let me add in Western exercises the side which "lost" often questions ROE (I don't think the side which "won" questions ROE though :) ... just to show what I mean:
Mar 31, 2016

where's
Brumby
by the way??
Brumby was last seen:
41w 1d ago

Yeah right...the Typhoon team cheated. They've ONLY had the "Raptor salad" AFTER the conducted exercise was supposedly done.
 
Yeah right...the Typhoon team cheated. They've ONLY had the "Raptor salad" AFTER the conducted exercise was supposedly done.
LOL from what I noticed, the amount of bragging is the highest among fighter jet pilots and their fanbois, it's pretty normal to declare XY:0 wins and thump chests then (and in a case of an unexpected report blame ROE, journalists, ...), the funny thing is it's coming from almost all over the world, this 'Just Bring Them In!' calls and total confidence :)
I mean those involved in for example Artillery know if a duel ensues between Artillery Battalions, people get killed and equipment destroyed, no matter how good they are
 
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