J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by Deino, Apr 17, 2015.

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  1. shen
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    shen Senior Member

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    why not? first generation imported Sukois rapidly approaching the end of service life. Chinese industries busy with development and production of domestic models. If Russia has excess production capacity, China should take up the offer. All depends on how quickly and smoothly the Russians can fulfill the contract. Wasn't there a report that the Su-35 will be delivered with Russian language display instead of conversion to Chinese? Let's not have any of the delays encountered by the Indo-Russian deals please.
     
  2. SinoSoldier
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    SinoSoldier Colonel

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    It seems that those who believe the PLAAF is planning the Su-35 as a next-gen fighter assume that 24 aircraft are sufficient to usurp the sheer numbers of the J-11B/15/16 as a frontline asset. The same individuals also conveniently forget that aircraft are being retired.
     
  3. Blackstone
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    Blackstone Brigadier

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    You're right there are some neocon articles so erroneous on facts and reason they're hard to read. An example is the enclosed I link for discussion purposes. I had a hard time getting through the article, because it's something even Gordon Chang might be embarrassed to utter. Amateur hour doesn't begin to describe it.

    Nevertheless, opinion pieces like it serve as good object lessons for rational readers that neocons have run out of ideas, so they continuously rehash and trot out the old ones that poll after poll show the American people no longer accept. Which in turn feed their desperation, so they churn out even more illogical, unbalanced, and factually wrong muck. They just don't get it.

    Why the West Must Stop China
     
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  4. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    Like I said, I have no problem with posting ridiculous articles, but I also feel like we need to assess them properly and if they're ridiculous then they need to be called out on it.

    Articles by Gordon Chang are an example of socio-political and economic commentary that are almost roundly ridiculous and laughed out of here, and this particular example also fits that bill.

    However articles by the defence section of National Interest and Dave Majumdar also often fit that bill, including the article you posted a page or so back about Su-35 and J-20.
     
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  5. b787
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    b787 Captain

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    thiis is the funny aspect of this forum you get the funniest explanations in order to avoid reality.

    Face it, J-20 still is in a development stage with some limitations, it has no Al-31F-2, it has limitation its engines are old Al-31s, they gave estrange solutions like ventral fins, but not here these are smart solutions.

    PAKFA like J-20 are in some way alike, their designers accepted some aerodynamic concessions are worth using them if they help, on J-20 they sacrificed stealth, the F-22 with its flat nozzles and booms blends the fuselage smoothly and stealth was not sacrificed, on J-20 the ventral fins help the jet at high AoA because it does not use TVC as substitute for aerodynamic controls, the end result is a wing aft strake thinner where the ventral fins are set, a good solution for its wing design since a thin wing is better for high speed, however the fuselage transition from a flat surface cross section of the weapons bay and the rounded engine nacelles was poorly made having a zig zag shape.

    The jet still will need the 117 of Su-35 if it wants to go supersonic without afterburner, without the 117, or even ws-15 J-20 is like the F-14A with TF-30 or early Su-27s with Al-21s.
    But of course all is charity in the alternate reality:D
     
  6. shen
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    shen Senior Member

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    uh no, ventral fins are neither strange( they are common) or a solution to weaker engines. weaker engines, at least initially, was expected from the beginning. The solution is reducing aerodynamic drag, by give it the best area-ruled airframe among fifth generation fighters, among other aerodynamic refinements. Just compare J-20 to the brute power approach of F-15.
     
  7. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    It's funny how the pride police gets upset when people just don't see the J-20 as a failure like they do. Why do they care when if what they think is true just makes those that don't follow lock-step with their beliefs just end up looking like fools. Even the most rabid China haters who want to treat China like the US did the Soviet Union by having China go bankrupt wasting money trying to catch-up somehow are upset that China dares to build this fighter even though they think it's inferior. Can't go bankrupt if they're not spending the money making it. Only panic makes people not think straight hence all the contradictions. Panic doesn't come from the confidence of knowing. It comes from not knowing.
     
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  8. latenlazy
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    latenlazy Colonel

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    To install the 117 into the J-20, they would need to modify the airframe and the software, and test the engine to make sure it behaved with the J-20's inlet design. That would take time. Switching engines is not a trivial matter. There's virtually no point investing time and money with a second interim solution when they're already well into development of their primary solution.
     
  9. b787
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    b787 Captain

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    The J-20 has two huge bulges on each side of the inlets, the DSI bulge, this is huge, thus forcing the intake mouth to be a wide gap too, this increases the cross section, the intake is followed by the weapons bays, this increases the area of the frontal cross section, thus the engine nacelles change abrutly from a trapezoidal to a circular shape, this increases the size of the J-20 fuselage, F-22 manages to fit the same engine weapons bay in a smaller and shorter fuselage and the booms are well blended, the J-20, could not do that, thus the transition from the trapezoidal cross section of the intakes and weapons bay to the circular cross section of the engine nacelles has not a smooth transition, J-31 in that is much better, the J-31 only is inferior to J-20 because both jets use old engines but RD-33 do not have a supercruise version neither can carry lots of fuel, thus the PLAAF will prioritize the larger aircraft because of range, in the same way Russia prioritized Su-27 over MiG-29, but the better aircraft is J-31 and F-22 is a much better approach to area ruling because flat nozzles are lower drag solution.

    The J-31 if it has the right engine, will be a better fighter than J-20, J-20 is overhyped because is the larger jet and in long range missions is a better option flying over sea or land
     
  10. Deino
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    Deino Brigadier
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    And the DSI on the F-35 is stealthy ???

    Come on ... were are back again right in a discussion we already had so often and since no-one really knows that stuff, these arguments are more or less baseless ..

    Deino:(
     
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