J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[Air Force Brat]

It's more a Chinese problem than an American problem, because the F/A-XX project is already in progress. China is trying to catch up to the United States, and if the projected J-20 is deployed right now, it'll likely be superior to the F-35, just as the F-35, if its program had been on schedule, would be superior to the J-20 in certain key aspects.

Basically, if a mature J-20 can be put out in numbers by 2022, it'll have five years of numerical dominance over the F-22 and qualitative dominance over the F-35. Towards 2028-2032, American sixth gens will hit the field, which will render the J-20 obsolete until the Chinese can catch up with their own sixth-generation kit.

But here's the problem; what happened to the F-35 was that its development was excessively prolonged, to the point where it had few advantages over its competitors, because while it was state-of-the-art during the design phase most of its technologies got cloned or hacked during its prolonged development. If the J-20 is similarly late with its "reach" technologies like its EODAS and proper 5th gen engines, 5 years of dominance could become 4, 3, 2, or 0.

As a good, loyal American this is not a problem for you. You must be interested in the J-20 simply because you like planes, and if its later technologies are 5 or 10 years late, no problem, it's still a beautiful plane. For the Chinese, however, this is geopolitically important because it determines how much military leverage they'll have in the region and the world between now and 2030, and if the J-20's add-on programs are late, it'll imply that sixth-generation fighters will also be late.

Basically, America is usually ahead of everyone else in planes; the US's cutting edge is a half or full generation ahead of everyone else's. This time, because of Lockheed screwing the pooch, America will hit parity with China for a brief interval, until it pulls ahead again with sixth gens. The question is whether or not China will also screw the pooch, then; if they don't, they have a chance of being briefly ahead, if they do, they will be a half-generation behind the US again.

My wifey, who went to nursing school and worked in the local hospital as a student, used to repeat the old adage that to "assume" made an "a--" out of you and me? Noting your assumptions here I would repeat the same to you???

Lesson 1 -all developmental programs, always fall behind!
Lesson 2-all developmental programs cost more than projected! always true.
Lesson 3-projections of capability are almost always overly optimistic.

You are making an initial assumption that capabilities expansion is always linear, it is not. As we drive capabilities into what today are the nether regions of technology, we should plan for and expect delays and cost overruns, as well as capability gaps

You are projecting your assumptions/time lines into the future based on broad generalities, each engineering challenge must be met with specific and targeted solutions, that hopefully does not push your project to far over projected timelines/budget constraints.

I do love beautiful aircraft, but as they say, "form follows function"?? the old engineering adage is almost always applicable to aircraft, and more than any other animate object, aircraft must conform to the airflow around them!

Lets just take ONE of your many erroneous assumptions??? That the J-20 is now or will be in the future? superior to the F-22 Raptor? upon what are you basing this statement??? your own, or others erroneous assumptions??? number one, you do NOT know the Raptors true capabilities??? NOR do you know its limitations??? and tell me what you really know about the J-20 or its capabilities or limitations???

so you have proven the old adage about assumptions??? but little else my brother.
Now you do make some interesting and even cogent observations, and by those observations we may formulate some assumptions that may be more accurate, but the broad brush verbatim statements are each likely to be in-accurate??

You could say that the J-20 or the T-50 will have a higher top speed than the Raptor?? but do you have any accurate data of the top speed of any one of these three aircraft????

Not trying to be rude or arrogant, only accurate. Brat

 

[davidwangqi]

Well, I finally found the reason for the gray camouflage of J20. It's almost visually invisible under such typical sky conditions of China.

Regarding J-20 and the CFTE .... is '2013' also already there or still at Chengdu ?

 

[tphuang]

My wifey, who went to nursing school and worked in the local hospital as a student, used to repeat the old adage that to "assume" made an "a--" out of you and me? Noting your assumptions here I would repeat the same to you???

Lesson 1 -all developmental programs, always fall behind!
Lesson 2-all developmental programs cost more than projected! always true.
Lesson 3-projections of capability are almost always overly optimistic.

You are making an initial assumption that capabilities expansion is always linear, it is not. As we drive capabilities into what today are the nether regions of technology, we should plan for and expect delays and cost overruns, as well as capability gaps

You are projecting your assumptions/time lines into the future based on broad generalities, each engineering challenge must be met with specific and targeted solutions, that hopefully does not push your project to far over projected timelines/budget constraints.

I do love beautiful aircraft, but as they say, "form follows function"?? the old engineering adage is almost always applicable to aircraft, and more than any other animate object, aircraft must conform to the airflow around them!

Lets just take ONE of your many erroneous assumptions??? That the J-20 is now or will be in the future? superior to the F-22 Raptor? upon what are you basing this statement??? your own, or others erroneous assumptions??? number one, you do NOT know the Raptors true capabilities??? NOR do you know its limitations??? and tell me what you really know about the J-20 or its capabilities or limitations???

so you have proven the old adage about assumptions??? but little else my brother.
Now you do make some interesting and even cogent observations, and by those observations we may formulate some assumptions that may be more accurate, but the broad brush verbatim statements are each likely to be in-accurate??

You could say that the J-20 or the T-50 will have a higher top speed than the Raptor?? but do you have any accurate data of the top speed of any one of these three aircraft????

Not trying to be rude or arrogant, only accurate. Brat

alright, let's cut out further J-20 vs F-22/35 before this could get out of line.

 

[Jeff Head]

Tphuang is a Super Moderator on SD.

When he asks you to sop, it means to stop.

Posting one more time saying you will drop it, but then using that post to get the last word in is NOT stopping, That post has been deleted.

Any more of that type of behavior will garner a warning...and then a suspension.

Use PM if you want to continue such a discussion.

Carry On.

DO NOT REPSOND TO THIS MODERATION

 

[Tyloe]

Regarding J-20 and the CFTE .... is '2013' also already there or still at Chengdu ?

View attachment 12893

Finally a top view of the J-20 and its of no. 2015 as well!

 

[SinoSoldier]

@gambit

On a completely unrelated note, do you think it is reasonable to use a light-colored radome to help with the dissipation of heat generated by high-powered radars?

There has been an ongoing debate of whether grey-colored PLAAF fighter radomes could signify AESA installation vis-a-vis black radomes.

 

[gambit]

@gambit

On a completely unrelated note, do you think it is reasonable to use a light-colored radome to help with the dissipation of heat generated by high-powered radars?

There has been an ongoing debate of whether grey-colored PLAAF fighter radomes could signify AESA installation vis-a-vis black radomes.

Let me put it this way...

The radome is a pass through device, which mean there must be some level of absorption, which will create heat. However, if there is so much heat that a lighter color radome must be used to exploit the color's heat radiation properties, there is a serious problem with the entire system, from radome to transmit power to software that manages everything.

Every radome have physical aberrations that WILL affect detection. The aberrations ranges from molecular to uniformity of the overall shape.

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If there is so much heat from absorption that a lighter color is required to control heat dissipation, then there is a serious design problem with the radome in terms of material composition, which WILL affect detection accuracy and precision. If pass through is not at the expected level to meet customer's detection range specs, then there must be increased transmit power, which lead back to material composition. If array choreography software must be more complex to deal with suspected detection accuracy and precision due to higher levels of aberrations, this lead back to radome material composition.

I do not know how valid is that speculation, but I would rate it at best a '2' on the scale of 10 for validity. Radome material composition that can withstand atmospheric and environmental stresses are commercially available, even the type that must withstand Mach.

I suspect that the lighter color radome is of a different composition, not for heat dissipation purposes, but for refinement of the ESA system's detection process. Maybe they did not have time to paint it. Maybe they did not care because if the new composites did not meet specs, what does it matter its color ?

But for heat dissipation ? Technically possible. But not probable.

 

[Deino]

Regarding J-20 and the CFTE .... is '2013' also already there or still at Chengdu ?

View attachment 12893

I missed to post it already yesterday, but the transfer of 2015 brings one question to my mind: when will we see 2016 ... is it a hint for a soon to be unveiled next aircraft ?

By the way there strong indications that 2015 was not transferred to the CFTE but even more already to the FTTC !

Deino

 

[by78]

Beautifully constructed...

 

[Ultra]

Regarding J-20 and the CFTE .... is '2013' also already there or still at Chengdu ?

I remember years ago when J-10B was first spotted and revealed - a lot of people at Defencetalk were disparaging the J-10B for being amateur hackjob because of the ugly bump behind the cockpit which is the satellite navigation antenna. Fast forward couple of years and now it looks like the sat nav antenna is integrated into the airframe very nicely.