J-15 carrier-borne fighter thread

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I think, thrust is not the problem but wing area and the 80-knots-ramp-limit.

You're correct in assuming the slow off the ramp speed is the limiting factor in lift. The J-15 having the same limitations at the end of the ramp has sufficient thrust as it "arcs" off the ramp to fly away. That is in essence why the J-15 does not launch with a maximum fuel and combat load out off the ramp, with more lift or more powerful engines that max launch weight would go up.

The trainer no doubt develops more than sufficient lift, in fact its obvious that the fuselage is designed to contribute significantly to that lift, and with more powerful engines the trainer would be able to launch of the ramp as well as the J-15,, its possible that with RATO bottles, that wouldn't be a problem, and RATO would significantly improve the J-15s ability to carry a full load off the ramp.

So thrust is indeed the limiting factor.

There are several open sources for information about flying off the ramp, and rather than pursue all those ill fixes, I believe the PLAN will be transitioning to a CATOBAR carrier at their earliest opportunity...
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
It is not easy to find the correct values on the internet, so please check what I found:

J-15 thrust 240 kN / weight 294 kN (30.0 t) = 0.82
Tejas: thrust 90 kN / weight 132 kN (13.5 t) = 0.68
L-10: thrust 49 kN / weight 93 kN (9.5 t) = 0.53

Thank you Intrepid, that does indeed illustrate the difference between flying the L-10 off the ramp, and flying the J-15 off the ramp. Flying the J-15 off the ramp at a reduced weight drives the thrust to weight ratio UP, and in reality, the J-15 is well able to carry sufficient fuel and weapons off the ramp to be tactically significant, even though it is not able to launch at max gross weight.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is not easy to find the correct values on the internet, so please check what I found:

J-15 thrust 240 kN / weight 294 kN (30.0 t) = 0.82
Tejas: thrust 90 kN / weight 132 kN (13.5 t) = 0.68
L-10: thrust 49 kN / weight 93 kN (9.5 t) = 0.53

Another version of JL-10 has ~80kN max thrust w/ afterburner. If a carrier version is needed that version is more likely chosen, than the more general purpose base version.
 

by78

General
An excellent photo. The caption says it's being transported to the hangar.

(2048 x 1451)
30256950848_e4d7b4d0a2_k.jpg
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Another version of JL-10 has ~80kN max thrust w/ afterburner. If a carrier version is needed that version is more likely chosen, than the more general purpose base version.

That's correct. But it would also need strengthening the fuselage, a reinforced nose gear, and an arrestor hook. Still this is the most likely candidate for a carrier trainer. Not only does it have more modern electronics, but there are afterburning engines available for it from Ukraine.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
The Engine news form China is getting better and better by the day, come right after rumor of WS15 impending trial/production
Here it is via Hongjian. And Come on no more condescending high horse "Dumb Minnie Chan" She just messenger of the leak that is given to her no more no less. You can believe or not
This is probably the reason why we don't see the next batch of J 15 production. They wait for better engine and no more AL31. Purportedly this new engine has higher thrust and extended MTBF of 1500 hr rivaling Al 31

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Engine boost for China’s J-15 fighter jets as Beijing tries to build up navy

An improved engine for the aircraft carrier-based warplanes is close to mass production, military analysts say

China is moving closer to mass-producing an improved engine with a longer lifespan and more power for its first aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, the J-15, according to military analysts.


They said technical problems had been overcome and the WS-10H turbofan engine now had the thrust and lifespan to put it on par with the AL-31F Russian-made engine that was initially used in the fighter jet.


Details about the WS-10H emerged after military sources told the South China Morning Post this week that a new and improved engine for China’s J-20 stealth fighter would be ready for mass production by the end of the year.


The WS-10H engine had been criticised as not powerful enough for the J-15 fighter jet, China’s heaviest and only active carrier-based warplane, which has a maximum take-off weight of 33 tonnes. Instead, the Russian engine was earlier used in the fighter jets for the navy’s first and only aircraft carrier in service, the Liaoning.

China plans to have at least four aircraft carrier groups operating by 2030 as it tries to build up a blue-water navy that can operate globally. That would mean the Chinese navy will need at least 130 carrier-based fighter jets in service by 2030. At the moment, the J-15 is the only carrier-based warplane in service – and the PLA Navy has less than 30 of them.

China ‘nears mass production’ of J-20 stealth fighter as engine issue fixed

Its first home-grown aircraft carrier has begun a second sea trial and is expected to enter service by October next year, while a third carrier is being built in Shanghai.

Li Jie, a naval expert in Beijing, said the WS-10H now had the thrust and lifespan of Russia’s AL-31F, but it still lagged behind America’s F414 afterburning turbofan engine, as used in the F-18 warplane.

The J-15 is the only carrier-based warplane in service, and China has less than 30 of them. Photo: AFP
“As a big power, China needs more carrier-based warplanes to support its naval ambitions, especially with its first home-grown aircraft carrier entering the final phase of sea trials and likely to go into service next year,” Li said.

Hong Kong military analyst Song Zhongping said the improved engine could now cope better with conditions at sea, where all naval aircraft and equipment must be able to withstand the “three highs” – temperature, humidity and salinity.

“The J-15 is so far the most developed, reliable and capable aircraft carrier-based warplane, and it will remain the backbone of China’s carrier battle groups in the future,” said Song, a military commentator for Phoenix Television.

He said Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, which makes the J-15, was developing a new-generation fighter jet for aircraft carriers, based on its FC-31 fourth-generation stealth fighter.

“Once they make more progress with developing the FC-31, it’s possible we’ll see more drills involving mixed manoeuvres using the stealth fighters and the J-15 jet fighters in the future. That would also be in line with practical operations on an aircraft carrier,” Song said.

China’s first home-grown aircraft carrier is expected to enter service next year. Photo: Xinhua via AP
According to Zhou Chenming, another military analyst in Beijing, the J-15 no longer uses the Russian engine, so there was a need to get the WS-10H to mass production stage.

Many of China’s home-grown fighter jets have had problems with their engines, aircraft design and modifications. Sources earlier told the Post there had been at least four crashes involving the J-15, though only two of them were reported by state media.

China’s air force quietly adds new J-16 fighter jets to ‘push the envelope’
One pilot was killed and another was badly injured in those two crashes in 2016, which were said to have been caused by mechanical failures – though state broadcaster CCTV said the flight control system was a key factor, not engine problems.

Beijing has been pushing the development of more sophisticated jet engines in the past decade, investing at least 150 billion yuan (US$21.94 billion) in that goal between 2010 and 2015.

Leading the way on developing and producing aircraft engines and gas turbines in recent years is state-owned Aero Engine. The company, which has about 10,000 employees, was formed two years ago through the merger of 24 subsidiaries of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC).

AVIC’s former chairman, Lin Zuoming, told state media last year that its latest single-crystal turbine blades – used in the WS-10 series engines – can now withstand temperatures of up to 2,000 degrees Celsius (3,632 Fahrenheit). He said that development had extended the engine’s lifespan from 800 to 1,500 hours.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I think the important thing is to apply standards equally for all authors and articles regardless of whether they are making a claim that we "like" or not.

First is to consider the authors past track record and credibility
Second is to consider whether the claims in a given article or piece corresponds with what we know. Whether it is too pessimistic or optimistic.


In this case, the idea of WS-10s being close to ready for application on J-15s is quite logical and corresponds with what we've known before.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Been reading these reports since years

The day J15 flys off with indigenous engine then talk

Prototype 554 was using WS-10H before being switched to Russian

That was 8 years ago still nothing
 
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