J-15 carrier-borne fighter thread

[cirvine11]

The recent Kuznetsov deployment shows indications of the limits of trying to launch useful strike loads from a ramp using the Su-33 and Mig-29K.

It's important to remember the Kuznetsov design was intended to launch fighters with enough range and armament to protect SSBN operating areas from long range ASW aircraft. The Soviets were carrier skeptics (at least of the U.S./UK type) until very late in the game. It's unclear the Soviets "Heavy Aircraft Carrying Cruiser(s)" would have used their own air group for primarary air defense or if they would have used their SAMs.

My point- that while the heavily modified Shi Lang is likely far more capable than Kuznetsov it should not be thought of as being strike capable like a CTOL carrier.

The J-15's full potential and capability will be realized on the next generation of Chinese aircraft carriers with catapults.

 

[Air Force Brat]

This is true. But it is true for both sides. We have only the laws of physics, no other proof. And we know that the Chinese do not want to stay with the unsupported take-off procedure. The Soviet Union did not want it either. The British did not want it.

Actually there is ample evidence of half loaded fixed wing aircraft flying off the ramp, that's the body of evidence which is huge, and the British are going to be operating the F-35B off the ramp at gross weight, because it is a STOVL aircraft, and operates very well, even off of our flat deck small carriers with a short take off run.

So yes, that friend is evidence and it is indeed prolific, the J-15/Su-33 carry everything but ammo for the internal gun, externally on "hard points" so we know full well how they are launched.. what we can-not see is fuel.

I will say this, the J-15 is an amazing, fully combat capable airplane, and once the Chinese bring out a CATOBAR carrier, it will no doubt launch with some of the largest loads ever shot off a carrier in a fighter aircraft?? but as of today, off the ramp, you have to be very careful with your fuel/weapons balance, depending on wind over the ramp, you are looking at half to three quarters of a full combat loadout.

We have NOT seen a "grossed out" J-15/SU-33 launch off either ramp to date?

 

[KIENCHIN]

The recent Kuznetsov deployment shows indications of the limits of trying to launch useful strike loads from a ramp using the Su-33 and Mig-29K.

It's important to remember the Kuznetsov design was intended to launch fighters with enough range and armament to protect SSBN operating areas from long range ASW aircraft. The Soviets were carrier skeptics (at least of the U.S./UK type) until very late in the game. It's unclear the Soviets "Heavy Aircraft Carrying Cruiser(s)" would have used their own air group for primarary air defense or if they would have used their SAMs.

My point- that while the heavily modified Shi Lang is likely far more capable than Kuznetsov it should not be thought of as being strike capable like a CTOL carrier.

The J-15's full potential and capability will be realized on the next generation of Chinese aircraft carriers with catapults.

Didn't know China has a second operatinal Kuznetsov carrie name Shi Lang ?

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Didn't know China has a second operatinal Kuznetsov carrie name Shi Lang ?

Right This question of J 15 load has been repeated ad nauseum. Early in the Liaoning test they show J 15 with dummy load of 2 X YJ83 and 2XPL12 I posted that picture to the question from popeye
That is load of approximately 2500 kg That is plenty I have no doubt they can add 2 more PL8 with no problem
It is buried somewhere in either this thread or Laioning thread

 

[plawolf]

The recent Kuznetsov deployment shows indications of the limits of trying to launch useful strike loads from a ramp using the Su-33 and Mig-29K.

It's important to remember the Kuznetsov design was intended to launch fighters with enough range and armament to protect SSBN operating areas from long range ASW aircraft. The Soviets were carrier skeptics (at least of the U.S./UK type) until very late in the game. It's unclear the Soviets "Heavy Aircraft Carrying Cruiser(s)" would have used their own air group for primarary air defense or if they would have used their SAMs.

My point- that while the heavily modified Shi Lang is likely far more capable than Kuznetsov it should not be thought of as being strike capable like a CTOL carrier.

The J-15's full potential and capability will be realized on the next generation of Chinese aircraft carriers with catapults.

Both Russian aircraft lost from the Kuznetov were lost on landing. How does that tell anyone anything about 'limitations' with launching fighters?

 

[vesicles]

My point- that while the heavily modified Shi Lang is likely far more capable than Kuznetsov it should not be thought of as being strike capable like a CTOL carrier.

I have to say that I am a little perplex how someone is still using Shi Lang, a baseless and rumored name made up by fan boys, for the Liaoning...

 

[FORBIN]

Both Russian aircraft lost from the Kuznetov were lost on landing. How does that tell anyone anything about 'limitations' with launching fighters?

Rusty cables broke

 

[cirvine11]

Didn't know China has a second operatinal Kuznetsov carrie name Shi Lang ?

Apologies. That's what I get for typing a post on the move after long day.

Of course I was referring to Liaoning.

 

[cirvine11]

Both Russian aircraft lost from the Kuznetov were lost on landing. How does that tell anyone anything about 'limitations' with launching fighters?

The Russians moved the air group ashore after attempting strikes from Kuznetsov

Both Russian aircraft lost from the Kuznetov were lost on landing. How does that tell anyone anything about 'limitations' with launching fighters?

This IHS Janes report states:

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“We don’t think the Russians are flying as many sorties off their carrier as they would want the world to think,” a senior UK military officer knowledgeable about Russian operations in Syria told IHS Jane’s. "We have seen a load of Su-33s and MiG-29s flying out of Humaymim Air Base, doing strikes all over northwest Syria."

It could be that they had logistical problems with launching from Kuznetsov. It could be there were problems with traps aboard the ship before the accidents. Or it could be aircraft performance launching from the ship with a useful bomb load.

There really isn't any evidence the Russians even tried to launch consistent strikes from the ship with useful bomb loads. There is evidence they abandoned trying to launch strikes from the ship and moved the air group ashore and launched strikes from there.

I believe in evidence and not getting into ego driven arguments that are evidence free. I'll attempt to find whatever evidence there is regarding the "why" and post it- whether that supports my initial assertion or not.

Either way- it is interesting.

 

[plawolf]

Rusty cables broke

Cables break from time to time even on USN carriers. Where the Russians pooed the bed is the inability to fix what should have been a standard problem in a timely manner. Which was components by poor leadership, who failed to deploy another fighter with a buddy refuelling pod to top up the circling Mig29 before it ran out of fuel.