J-15 carrier-borne fighter thread

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
And that's the other side of the coin. Definitely possible, and maybe more than that. Let's wait for more facts to come out.

Well, no at this stage I think you're giving Alert 5's stance far more credibility than it deserves based on the actual Chinese language article and the use of common sense.

I can understand the need to keep an open mind -- after all this is PLA watching -- but this all needs to be done in a context of common sense and viable evidence.
And at this stage, the Alert 5 claim looks completely out of kilter with everything else we know, so it's probably best described as unsubstantiated, and should be treated with high amounts of skepticism.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
LOL I can feel how deeply and badly you want to believe Alert 5. An article that can't properly translate its own sources and you want to suggest that it could be a big shrimp behind it just to grasp at the thread of hope that it was an engine problem caused by a Chinese engine failure. If a homeless beggar told you a Chinese engine failed, you'd find some way in your heart to believe that he was probably a big shrimp and a reliable source LOL
Me being wrong isn't uncommon, and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm willing to change my view if evidence warrant it. Until then, SDF is a free discussion forum where you could agree, disagree, or anywhere in between- with civility, of course.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Well, no at this stage I think you're giving Alert 5's stance far more credibility than it deserves based on the actual Chinese language article and the use of common sense.

I can understand the need to keep an open mind -- after all this is PLA watching -- but this all needs to be done in a context of common sense and viable evidence.
And at this stage, the Alert 5 claim looks completely out of kilter with everything else we know, so it's probably best described as unsubstantiated, and should be treated with high amounts of skepticism.
And we agree caveat emptor is always wise with news media.
 

Ashbringer_NEU

New Member
Registered Member
Hi Blackstone, I think there are some some confusions here, just like Bltizo said, the full Chinese article from that Alert 5 page's link said "sudden elect flight control failure (突发电传故障)" in the first paragraph. I do not know, maybe it is a translate mistake, but the whole article did not mentioned engine or any related word at all, so I really suspect the motive of Alert 5...

Besides, I do not believe that Chinese official media hides the truth of this accident, I mean those engines are from Russia, and flight control system is made in China, so why does CNR hide Russian duty, and claim that it is China's own fault?

I also agree with manqiangrexue's opinion, J-15 is a two-engine jet, and an elite pilot from PLAN was going to land in this accident, normal single-engine failure can hardly cause this accident.

With all due respect, but I think the probability of flight control problem is pretty high.
 
On April 27, PLAN lost first J-15 and pilot on a land training mission.

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That's too bad, condolences to the pilot and their loved ones, but a degree of failure is to be expected with military technology growing pains anywhere. It's important that China recognizes the failures and sacrifices along the way as well as the achievements.
 

Ashbringer_NEU

New Member
Registered Member
I just saw a long report from CNR about Zhang Chao, anyway, seems this CNR's original report has been deleted for some reason, but fortunately someone copied the entire report and pasted it on CJDBY.

The report is very long, it introduces Zhang Chao's flying experience, families, and details during and after the accident. Here are a part of the report about the accident details, please forgive my poor translation, my English is not very good.......

________________________________________________________________________________

"央广网北京7月27日消息 现场视频和飞参数据清楚告诉我们,在飞机出现大仰角时,张超做出的第一反应竟是把操纵杆推到头,说明当时他的想法是保住飞机,却错过了跳伞最佳时机,雄鹰折翅,令人扼腕痛惜。


  从张超跳伞负伤到牺牲,团长张叶一直陪在他身边,清楚记得张超说的最后一句话:“团长,我是不是再也飞不了了……”


  有两个细节或许能说明一些问题。第一个细节:团长张叶介绍说,指挥员命令张超跳伞的时候他已经出来了,如果说等指挥员命令他跳伞再出来,就算是同时,因为拉中央弹射手柄到点火再到穿破座舱盖弹射出来,虽然只需零点几秒钟,人也是出不来的,这足以说明张超当时的反应是相当快的,同时也说明他平时对装备的研究是非常透彻的,一般人是做不到的,换做其他人不一定有他做得好。第二个细节:团长张叶介绍说,故障发生时,如果张超感觉到飞机在滑跑时状态不好,机头还没有起来的时候就弹出来,人应该会没事,顶多是受点伤。"

"From CNR, Beijing, July 27. The video and data tell us that after J-15 was in high angle, Zhang Chao's first activity was pushing the rod, it means that he was trying to save the plane, but he missed the best chance of ejection.

After Zhang Chao's ejection, his regiment commander Zhang Ye, stayed with him all the time, he clearly remembers Zhang Chao's last words: 'Sir, is it impossible for me to fly again?'

There are two details may tell us something. First, Commander Zhang Ye said that the pilot had ejected before he gave the order, if the pilot ejected after he received the order, even at the same time, considering the time of pulling ejection trigger and leaving the cockpit, he would not be able to eject out of the fighter. It proofs that the pilot reacted quickly, and he knew his J-15 completely, others would not do better than him. Second, according to regiment commander, in the accident, if Zhang Chao found the J-15 was not right during landing run, and he ejected before fighter's nose risen up, he should survive or at most get hurt."
_________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the Link to the page of CJDBY forum:
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So it seems like the J-15 has landed to the ground?Or at least the fighter had touched the ground? But after that because of the flight control issue, the fighter risen its nose suddenly, the pilot was trying to save it but failed, so he ejected immediately without command, anyway it was still too late, he ejected when the fighter was almost vertical, that means he ejected at 0 degree, and the altitude may be only 20-30 meters. I think there was no chance for him to even open his parachute completely.

In this accident the pilot did not need to worry about hitting other people, I think the reason for him to save the plane first could be: 1. he wanted to save the plane so engineers from AVIC can found the reason of flight control failure, 2. he pushed the rod first subconsciously.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
I just saw a long report from CNR about Zhang Chao, anyway, seems this CNR's original report has been deleted for some reason, but fortunately someone copied the entire report and pasted it on CJDBY.

The report is very long, it introduces Zhang Chao's flying experience, families, and details during and after the accident. Here are a part of the report about the accident details, please forgive my poor translation, my English is not very good.......

________________________________________________________________________________

"央广网北京7月27日消息 现场视频和飞参数据清楚告诉我们,在飞机出现大仰角时,张超做出的第一反应竟是把操纵杆推到头,说明当时他的想法是保住飞机,却错过了跳伞最佳时机,雄鹰折翅,令人扼腕痛惜。


  从张超跳伞负伤到牺牲,团长张叶一直陪在他身边,清楚记得张超说的最后一句话:“团长,我是不是再也飞不了了……”


  有两个细节或许能说明一些问题。第一个细节:团长张叶介绍说,指挥员命令张超跳伞的时候他已经出来了,如果说等指挥员命令他跳伞再出来,就算是同时,因为拉中央弹射手柄到点火再到穿破座舱盖弹射出来,虽然只需零点几秒钟,人也是出不来的,这足以说明张超当时的反应是相当快的,同时也说明他平时对装备的研究是非常透彻的,一般人是做不到的,换做其他人不一定有他做得好。第二个细节:团长张叶介绍说,故障发生时,如果张超感觉到飞机在滑跑时状态不好,机头还没有起来的时候就弹出来,人应该会没事,顶多是受点伤。"

"From CNR, Beijing, July 27. The video and data tell us that after J-15 was in high angle, Zhang Chao's first activity was pushing the rod, it means that he was trying to save the plane, but he missed the best chance of ejection.

After Zhang Chao's ejection, his regiment commander Zhang Ye, stayed with him all the time, he clearly remembers Zhang Chao's last words: 'Sir, is it impossible for me to fly again?'

There are two details may tell us something. First, Commander Zhang Ye said that the pilot had ejected before he gave the order, if the pilot ejected after he received the order, even at the same time, considering the time of pulling ejection trigger and leaving the cockpit, he would not be able to eject out of the fighter. It proofs that the pilot reacted quickly, and he knew his J-15 completely, others would not do better than him. Second, according to regiment commander, in the accident, if Zhang Chao found the J-15 was not right during landing run, and he ejected before fighter's nose risen up, he should survive or at most get hurt."
_________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the Link to the page of CJDBY forum:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


So it seems like the J-15 has landed to the ground?Or at least the fighter had touched the ground? But after that because of the flight control issue, the fighter risen its nose suddenly, the pilot was trying to save it but failed, so he ejected immediately without command, anyway it was still too late, he ejected when the fighter was almost vertical, that means he ejected at 0 degree, and the altitude may be only 20-30 meters. I think there was no chance for him to even open his parachute completely.

In this accident the pilot did not need to worry about hitting other people, I think the reason for him to save the plane first could be: 1. he wanted to save the plane so engineers from AVIC can found the reason of flight control failure, 2. he pushed the rod first subconsciously.
Thanks for the additional details, your English is plenty good.

Does the accident call into question J11/15-series ejection seat system, or was it a freak accident that no ejection system in the world could have prevented pilot harm/death?
 

Ashbringer_NEU

New Member
Registered Member
Thanks for the additional details, your English is plenty good.

Does the accident call into question J11/15-series ejection seat system, or was it a freak accident that no ejection system in the world could have prevented pilot harm/death?

I do not think any ejection system can do better, I mean it ejected at 0 degree near ground, it is really hard for the pilot to survive. Actually I worry more about the elect flight control system, I do not know the reason of failure, usually most of control system's blemishes could be found during the test flying, so maybe the system was failure because of hardware was overused? However if it was a system design problem, then AVIC's engineers would have lots of work to do....
 
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