J-10 Thread IV

KIENCHIN

Junior Member
Registered Member
There's an ancient tradition in Imperial China to tie a red ribbon around an artillery piece before induction. Looks like they've carried it over to fighter jets.
They pretty much tie a red ribbon or a red knot if you want to call it on everthing new, heck they even have one across the chest of a groom in traditional weddings, perhaps as you mention, to celebrate the induction of a certain cannon.
 

AlyxMS

Junior Member
Registered Member
A theory for why WS-10 isn't on J-10B/C yet:

AL-31 had a bypass ratio of 0.59.
And for WS-10 it's 0.78?

Large bypass ratio turbo fans will often have superior performance at subsonic speed (as demonstrated by WS-10's ~135-140kN thrust compared to AL-31's ~123kN. But performance will suffer at supersonic speeds compared to low BPR engines.

And the J-10 clearly had high speed high altitude performance in mind with its highly back swept delta-canard. Could it be that they found out that J-10's supersonic performance would suffer if they changed the engine to WS-10 after they tested it? (Which is why we saw the pictures of J-10B/C with WS-10 but nothing after that?)
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
A theory for why WS-10 isn't on J-10B/C yet:

AL-31 had a bypass ratio of 0.59.
And for WS-10 it's 0.78?

Large bypass ratio turbo fans will often have superior performance at subsonic speed (as demonstrated by WS-10's ~135-140kN thrust compared to AL-31's ~123kN. But performance will suffer at supersonic speeds compared to low BPR engines.

And the J-10 clearly had high speed high altitude performance in mind with its highly back swept delta-canard. Could it be that they found out that J-10's supersonic performance would suffer if they changed the engine to WS-10 after they tested it? (Which is why we saw the pictures of J-10B/C with WS-10 but nothing after that?)
Flanker has higher speed, higher altitude though...
 

AlyxMS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Flanker has higher speed, higher altitude though...
Russian flanker or J-11B?
I don't think we have official data regarding J-11B with WS-10, also Flankers have twice the engine..

There simply isn't enough data to work with, which is why it's just a theory. I could be entirely wrong and it's just some other reason.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Russian flanker or J-11B?
I don't think we have official data regarding J-11B with WS-10, also Flankers have twice the engine..

There simply isn't enough data to work with, which is why it's just a theory. I could be entirely wrong and it's just some other reason.
Su-27 and J-11A have higher speed and ceiling than J-10A. Su-35 is cited as lower ceiling, lower speed than those 2 Flankers. Don't have info on more advanced SinoFlankers. But that's not the point. The point is that your theory is that J-10 was designed for high speed, high ceiling with AL-31 and switching it to WS-10X may cause unacceptable loss to this performance. But if true, this unacceptable loss in performance would also translate to Flankers, which have made the switch from AL-31 to WS-10X. So either they felt that in the case of the Flanker, this loss was acceptable (I cannot understand why), or your theory may not hold water. Flankers have twice the engine, but they also need twice the engine.
 

kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't know where you got that 0.78 bypass ratio but it really doesn't make sense for a fighter engine. Even F-135 which often criticized to have a bypass ratio too high for fighters has a BPR of 0.57.
 

AlyxMS

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't know where you got that 0.78 bypass ratio but it really doesn't make sense for a fighter engine. Even F-135 which often criticized to have a bypass ratio too high for fighters has a BPR of 0.57.
From the internet. Ranging from 0.8 to 0.66. The most common quoted number seems to be 0.78.
0.57 is in fact not high at all.

The famous GE F110, had a BPR of 0.76 until the lastest F110-GE-132 that reduced it to 0.68, still way higher than 0.57.

Su-27 and J-11A have higher speed and ceiling than J-10A. Su-35 is cited as lower ceiling, lower speed than those 2 Flankers. Don't have info on more advanced SinoFlankers. But that's not the point. The point is that your theory is that J-10 was designed for high speed, high ceiling with AL-31 and switching it to WS-10X may cause unacceptable loss to this performance. But if true, this unacceptable loss in performance would also translate to Flankers, which have made the switch from AL-31 to WS-10X. So either they felt that in the case of the Flanker, this loss was acceptable (I cannot understand why), or your theory may not hold water. Flankers have twice the engine, but they also need twice the engine.
You are probably right, it's just a random thought that came up on my mind after seeing a post about thrust curves on CJDBY.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Current J-10A,B,C, & S Inventories:

View attachment 35875


First of all what does DX-1 and SX-1 mean ??

But IMO this is only a highly unrelaible fan-made chart !

Concerning the J-10B, since when has the 124. Brigade received 8 aircraft and even more for the J-10C it does not make any sense to start conversion with so many different units at the same time each getting only 4 aircraft (like here the fro, K24, K9, K15, K12, ... ) also there are no reports about the 1. and 3. Division already having J-10C.
Also for the J-10A, since when does the 130 AR/44. AD have J-10A, and why only 4 ??

And finally since when is any J-20 delivered to the units listed above?

Deino
 
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