Israeli preparing for 'all out' war (Ground Invasion)

alwaysfresh

New Member
"Israeli troops have been massed along the border with the Gaza Strip"

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”As Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, says Israel's military is in an "all-out war" with Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Al Jazeera asked Israelis how they feel about the ongoing offensive and the prospect of a ground incursion.“

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"The death of the two in Rafah is elevating the number of the Palestinians that were killed by Israeli air missiles since Saturday morning to 400 killed and more than 1000 wounded."

"Meanwhile, in spite of the intensive airstrikes on the Gaza Strip, Islamic Hamas movement's armed wing, al-Qassam Brigades, claimed responsibility for launching more than 40 long-range rockets at Israeli cities."

"Israeli tanks massed at the Gaza border on Monday as warplanes continued pounding Hamas targets in the densely populated enclave where raids have killed more than 300 people in two days."

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Russia, UN, European Union, and China all are voicing serious concern towards this issue.

Question 1: What kind of rockets to does Hamas have?

Question 2: Who may respond to Israel ground force all out offensive?

Question 3: If Israel is successful in controlling the area 100 % and take over the area. Do you think it will soon be like Georgia or Iraq?

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akihh

New Member
Question 1: What kind of rockets to does Hamas have?

At least home-made quassams and improved grad-type MRLS, both fired from makeshift single-shot launchers. Jerusalem Post reported today that even Tel Aviv has ordered bunkers to be readied so Israel takes precautions against longer range missile (or escalation, how ever unlikely it might seem).

Question 3: If Israel is successful in controlling the area 100 % and take over the area. Do you think it will soon be like Georgia or Iraq?

Israel has said that it will not re-occupy gaza. Probably no one knows at the moment how will things go, not even israeli leaders.

Question 2: Who may respond to Israel ground force all out offensive?

Hamas has something around 15000 men under arms of which only approximately 1000 are well-trained in warfare. Rest are more like militia units. They do have some antitank missiles, so ground ops are going to be somewhat costly to Israel as hamas has had enough time to prepare defences. IDF might have done an error when it didn't roll armour to gaza right at the beginning of this war when hamas was still shell schoked by sudden attack.

Probably no arab country will respond in any kind to Israeli offensive because they view hamas (and hizballah in Lebanon) as proxies of Iran which they deeply loathe. Publicly they will condemn the attack but in private probably hoping that hamas is crushed for good.

However, Iran and its proxy hizballah are wild cards. Iran uses very harsh language on Israel (even Khameini and not just his frontmen) and is vaging a successful psyops campaing to gather following from disgruntled arabs whose own governments are not forwarding "palestinian cause" at all. Mid to long this is very serious, even Egypt seems vulnerable to destabilization.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
if say perhaps maybe for example israel annihilates hamas completely and occupies gaza, the muslim world are gonna go WTF. israel will be in big trouble. besides you cant really kill all the hamas militants unless you kill all the palestinians
 

tranquill

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Israeli dissident analytic writes that IDF op in Gaza is already stuck, Israelis are bogged down, and basically that's the end of the war:
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Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Israeli ground forces enter Gaza in escalation

By IBRAHIM BARZAK and JASON KEYSER, Associated Press Writers – 4 mins ago


AP – An explosion from an Israeli strike in the northern Gaza Strip is seen from the Israel side of the border …
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli tanks and infantry rolled into Gaza after nightfall Saturday, launching a ground offensive in a widening war against Hamas that the Israeli defense minister said "will not be easy and will not be short."
The ground operation was preceded by several hours of heavy artillery fire after dark, igniting flames in the night sky. Machine gun fire rattled as bright tracer rounds flashed through the darkness and the crash of hundreds of shells sent up streaks of fire.
Artillery fired illuminating rounds, sending streaks of bright light drifting down over Gaza's densely packed neighborhoods. Gunbattles could be heard, as troops crossed the border into Gaza, marching single file. They were backed by helicopter gunships and tanks.
"Gaza will not be paved with flowers for you, it will be paved with fire and hell," Hamas warned Israeli forces. Spokesman Ismail Radwan said in a televised speech Gaza will "become a graveyard" for Israeli soldiers.
"This will not be easy and it will not be short," Defense Minister Ehud Barak said in a televised address shortly after the ground invasion began. "I don't want to disillusion anybody and residents of the south will go through difficult days," he added.
"We do not seek war but we will not abandon our citizens to the ongoing Hamas attacks."
Israeli security officials said the objective is not to reoccupy Gaza. The depth and intensity of the ground operation will depend on parallel diplomatic efforts, the officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
Eight days of fighting so far have left more than 460 Palestinians dead and four Israelis were killed by rocket fire. Gaza is densely populated, and intense urban warfare in those conditions could exact a much higher civilian toll. The U.N. estimates that at least a quarter of the Palestinians killed so far were civilian.
"We have many, many targets, Israeli army spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich told CNN. "To my estimation, it will be a lengthy operation."
Before the ground incursion began, heavy Israeli artillery fire hit east of Gaza City in locations were Hamas fighters were deployed. The artillery shells were apparently intended to detonate Hamas explosive devices and mines planted along the border area before troops marched in.
A text message sent by Hamas' military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, said "the Zionists started approaching the trap which our fighters prepared for them." Hamas said it also broadcast a Hebrew message on Israeli military radio frequencies promising to kill and kidnap the Israeli soldiers.
"Be prepared for a unique surprise, you will be either killed or kidnapped and will suffer mental illness from the horrors we will show you," the message said.
Hamas has also threatened to resume suicide attacks inside Israel.
Hamas has long prepared for Israel's invasion, digging tunnels and rigging some areas with explosives. At the start of the offensive, Israeli artillery hit some of the border areas, apparently to detonate hidden explosives.
The Israeli government said tens of thousands of reserve soldiers are being mobilized as the offensive in Gaza widens. Before the ground incursion began, defense officials said about 10,000 Israeli soldiers had massed along the border in recent days.
The offensive began last Saturday with a week of aerial bombardment of Hamas targets, in an attempt to halt Hamas rocket attacks that were reaching farther into Israel than ever before.
Despite the military onslaught, Hamas kept firing at Israeli towns, and Israeli officials said diplomatic efforts did not produced a satisfactory plan so far to guarantee a halt to rockets.
Israel initially held off on a ground offensive, apparently in part because of concern about casualties among Israeli troops and because of fears of getting bogged down in Gaza.
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said before the ground operation began that Israel might have no choice but to move in on the ground.
"There are targets that can be done from the air and targets that cannot," Livni told Channel 2 TV.
She said Israel had broader objectives than just trying to stop Gaza militants from firing rockets into the country's south. She told the interviewer that toppling Hamas was "a strategic Israeli objective" but said that more than one military offensive might be needed to achieve Israel's aims.
"I cannot accept a state controlled by a terror organization in Gaza," Livni said.
Israeli airstrikes intensified just as the ground operation was getting under way, and 28 Palestinians were killed. One raid hit a mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya, killing 13 people and wounding 33, according to a Palestinian health official.
One of the wounded worshippers, Salah Mustafa, told Al-Jazeera TV from a hospital that the mosque was packed.
"It was unbelievably awful," he said, struggling to catch his breath.
It was not immediately clear why the mosque was hit, but Israel has hit other mosques in its air campaign and said they were used for storing weapons.
Artillery fire is less accurate than attacks from the air using precision-guided munitions, raising the possibility of a higher number of civilian casualties.
An artillery shell hit a house in Beit Lahiya, killing two people and wounding five, said members of the family living there. Ambulances could not immediately reach them because of the resulting fire, they said.
Resident Abed al-Ghoul said the Israeli army called by phone to tell them to leave the house within 15 minutes.
Palestinian militants kept up their fire as well, launching 29 rockets into Israel Saturday, hitting four houses and lightly wounding three people.
One rocket scored a direct hit on a house in the southern city of Ashkelon and another struck a bomb shelter there, leaving its above-ground entrance scarred by shrapnel and blasting a parked bus.
The ground operation sidelined intense international diplomacy to try to reach a truce. French President Nicolas Sarkozy was the visit the region next week, and U.S. President George W. Bush and U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon both spoke in favor of an internationally monitored truce.
Israel has already said it wants international monitors. It is unclear whether Hamas would agree to such supervision, which could limit its control of Gaza. Hamas has ruled the area since seizing control in June 2007.
In Hamas' first reaction to the proposal for international monitors, government spokesman Taher Nunu said early Saturday that the group would not allow Israel or the international community to impose any arrangement, though he left the door open to a negotiated solution.
"Anyone who thinks that the change in the Palestinian arena can be achieved through jet fighters' bombs and tanks and without dialogue is mistaken," he said.

Looks like the Israelis are entering the Strip. I don't know what their objectives are; they might be able to slow or even stop rocket fire for a while, but I still doubt this will change much in the long run. I think part of the rationale for this is that by entering the strip they will get Hamas's soldiers to come out and fight, and then the IDF can kill them and inflict casualties, which it cannot do from the air because Hamas's fighters are just laying low, considering they can't do anything about air strikes anyway.

The IDF and Hamas are in for quite an urban fight, one both sides are well prepared for.
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
Looks like the Israelis are entering the Strip. I don't know what their objectives are; they might be able to slow or even stop rocket fire for a while, but I still doubt this will change much in the long run. I think part of the rationale for this is that by entering the strip they will get Hamas's soldiers to come out and fight, and then the IDF can kill them and inflict casualties, which it cannot do from the air because Hamas's fighters are just laying low, considering they can't do anything about air strikes anyway.

The IDF and Hamas are in for quite an urban fight, one both sides are well prepared for.

But from a long-term political perspective, this military action does not seem to serve a good purpose, and ultimately that's what matters - if the political goal of reducing violence will be helped or hindered by the attack. As you said, things are unlikely to change, death toll aside, so long as the political conditions that make violence attractive still exist.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
^Yeah I saw that and was wondering the same thing myself. It certainly looks like they are. Artillery fired cluster munitions.

By the way, nice to see the Zergling back. Haven't heard from you in a while!:china:
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
^Yeah I saw that and was wondering the same thing myself. It certainly looks like they are. Artillery fired cluster munitions.

By the way, nice to see the Zergling back. Haven't heard from you in a while!:china:

Yes the IDF is using munitions similar or the same as the US.

{Edit two days later.. I believe that's a White Phosphorus round. Not a cluster munition}.

And I'm happy to see the Zerling is back in da' house!
 
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K M T

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Yes the IDF is using munition similar or the same as the US.

And I'm happy to see the Zerling is back in da' house!


Is that not irresponsible in densely populated area like Gaza and why they have need to use cluster munition, IDF have precision munition?
With cluster munition there will more collateral damage and that is unfavorable for Israel's propaganda?
 
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