ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

Saturday at 12:11 PM
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#2 (EDIT: denotes Talbiseh pocket) recently saw heavy fights in "northern protrusion toward Hama", lost by Rebels:
CYGHlzwUkAUGg_O.png:large


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... and I think it's time (for me :) to take a closer look there, as I've seen reports of
  • Government Force trying to get into
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    (in bottom-left corner below; it's a tiny part of Talbiseh pocket north to
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    ), and
  • Russians frequently bombing
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    (in the bottom, on "M5");
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shows in top-right (spelled "Taqsees"), to "align" the two maps:
KMPin.jpg
OK, the scale ... it's only about one mile from Jarjisa to Rastan, and some ten miles from Rastan to Taqsees
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
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It's Fox News, so I'm not going to take it at face value without second and third source verification.

However, if true this would signal the beginning of the end for ISIS.

If you need to resort to terror tactics to keep your troops in line, you massively demoralise them and effective turn them into slave conscripts. That means their combat effectiveness is going to plummet and desertions multiply.

The retarded 'victory or death no matter what' mentality is also a sure fire way to loose you battles and wars.

Sometimes you do need to hold the line no matter the cost. Other times you need to be tactically flexible and save your strength to fight more winnable and/or important battles.

Good leaders and generals can reliably judge which instance they find themselves in and have the courage to make the right call irrespective of how it looks.

Even world class militaries like WWII Germany were brought low because of 'stand or die' directives from up top, ISIS is at is core a guerrilla army. If they abandon the guerrilla's biggest asset of being able to melt away easily to pick and choose their fights, so much easier to eradicate them.
 
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If you need to resort to terror tactics to keep your troops in line, you massively demoralise them and effective turn them into slave conscripts. That means their combat effectiveness is going to plummet and desertions multiply.

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the oldest counter-example I know of would the decimation ordered by Crassus during the campaign against Spartacus (just off top of my head, details could be found at wiki, I guess)
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Different times, different rules. Back in those days, watching people hack each other to pieces and/or get eaten by wild animals was your standard weekend entertainment.

Decimation was an extreme, but acknowledged and accepted form of military discipline back then.

I know ISIS wants to drag humanity kicking and screaming back to those dark ages, but despite their best efforts, people still have certain moral standards and expectations. Violating those carry grave costs.
 
Different times, different rules. Back in those days, watching people hack each other to pieces and/or get eaten by wild animals was your standard weekend entertainment.

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something more recent, then (no more from me after this one):
again off top of my head, sometime in August (?), 1941 Zhukov was sent to Leningrad to defend it, and he soon ordered to set up a "line of no return" (I've read where it went, but forgot; it could be quickly found in Internet, I believe), behind which the defenders would be treated as Traitors, with the consequences not just to them, but also to their families ... the defenders at that time comprised not only Red Army, but also so called volunteers (guys taken from factories etc.)

EDIT
not exactly encouraging to
He Who Fights And Runs Away
May Live To Fight Another Day
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
As I said, there are some instances where you absolutely have to hold the line, no matter the cost. Stalingrad is about as classic an example of that as there have ever been in the history of warfare.
 
As I said, there are some instances where you absolutely have to hold the line, no matter the cost. Stalingrad is about as classic an example of that as there have ever been in the history of warfare.

is there a relevance to where we started, which was ISIL who fled Ramadi?
 
Saturday at 12:11 PM
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as for the area around Kuweiris Airbase:
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(looks like about ten miles around the Kuweiris Airbase secured)

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... now found this map:
7eE6c.jpg
the area controlled by Government Forces is marked off, plus the cross indicates their most recent gain (the village of Surayb); the yellow road goes to Raqqa, and Fah to the east is at the outskirts of Aleppo
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
is there a relevance to where we started, which was ISIL who fled Ramadi?

Ha, well you brought Stalingrad up. ;)

My point has always been that good commanders need both the freedom and wisdom to decide whether to stand and fight or make tactical withdraws in the face of impossible odds to preserve their strength to be better used in another battle that is either more important and/or one they actually have a chance of winning.

When the battle has already clearly and irredeemably been lost, good commanders' top priority should then become one of saving as much men and materials as they can from that defeat so they can regroup and fight another day.

Demanding that they stay and fight to the death when all hope of victory has already been lost is plain stupid.

The needless deaths of all those men and loss of valuable equipment that could easily have been saved achieves no strategic value.

Tactically speaking, when your side has already been routed, even if you stayed to fight to the death, you are not likely to be able to achieve much of anything before getting cornered and picked off by the enemy.

It's simply a stupid policy and a waste of men and materials to demand your troops never retreat. It's far worse to summarily execute men who have retreated, especially in such a gruesome manner.

If these reports are true, then ISIS is finished. It just doesn't know it's dead yet.

I wonder if the Russians and coalition air strikes have managed to liquidate all, or enough of the sensible ISIS leaders and field commanders, to leave the clueless zealots in charge.

If that is the case, best stop targeting ISIS leadership with air strikes, as these bonehead leadership and blind brutality is helping to kill ISIS members just as, if not more efficiently then coalition air strikes. :p
 
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