ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. dtulsa
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    dtulsa Junior Member

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    Are you suggesting total war I don't know if that's possible in the politically correct world in which we live in although I tend to agree but I think it will take another 911 type of event for that to happen

    We have to very care about that scenario I for one would rather focus to the facts on the ground and their coincidence to history
     
    #2121 dtulsa, Nov 5, 2015
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  2. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    Not total war, but a real, comprehensive ground campaign to hunt down and kill or capture every ISIS fighter that could be found, to rescue all the enslaved men and women and children being held by ISIS and liberate all territories held or terrorised by them.

    Ideally you will also want to hold the ground and build a stable society there to stop ISIS returning as soon as you leave, but at this point, a purge campaign designed only to hunt down and root out ISIS will do. For now.

    They cannot be allowed a safe heaven where they can rest, organise, plan, train and generally do as they please, they must be hunted and hounded wherever they go and not allowed any breathing room. Because as soon as we let up the pressure, they will be planning the next big attack or atrocity.

    Do not be fooled into thinking anything has changed just because it has been non-westerners who have borne the burnt of ISIS attacks in recent years. If anything, international terrorism has only grown stronger in recent years. Especially so after Libya and Syria. Sooner or later, they will turn their attention to the west, Russia and even China.

    The world may need another 9/11 attack to be galvanised into making the commitment to do what must be done, but it really shouldn't. It would be a supreme tragedy if we all saw it coming but no one had the will and balls to do what is necessary to avert such an attack, and instead could only summon the strength to do what must be done in the aftermath of it.

    And the worst thing is, if it is proven that the downing of the Russian airliner was a terrorist attack, and that it was an inside job, it would suggest that ISIS has a long term game plan.

    I think we are all at times guilty of underestimating them, of thinking them as little better than rabid dogs who will attack on sight every opportunity they can get.

    If the airline was brought down by a bomb, it would suggest that ISIS had developed the capability to bring down airliners, and that they likely done so some time ago and was holding that back. Probably because it knows full well that the world will not do what is necessary to destroy ISIS without another 9/11 scale attack to give it the will to do so.

    That means that we are only safe now because it serves ISIS' interests to hold off the next big attack, but the longer we wait, the worse that attack, when it finally comes, will be.
     
  3. dtulsa
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    dtulsa Junior Member

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    Unfortunately you are right although I and probably everyone else in this forum wishes you weren't ABC news is now reporting that a bomb did bring the plane down although Egypt is denying it
     
  4. Jura
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    Jura General

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    trying to go back once more to
    Oct 24, 2015
    and while this situation seems to hold (also in other Damascus suburbs), I've realized I definitely should have added one more direction: against "Tall Sayyad salient"; the map from last week:
    [​IMG]

    the view when I tried to "zoom in" there:
    [​IMG]
    The territory under Government control probably ends north to Morek, and includes "56" road visible in the bottom-left corner, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnaz north to it. About two weeks ago I read the Regular Army in the beginning of its October Offensive had tried to cut out this Salient by attacking from the directions of Morek and Kernaz at the same time, but was repelled after counter-attacks were mounted against the flanks of said attacks.

    I wonder what's the situation there now, considering what's the most recent map is showing in that area:
    [​IMG]

    This map also seems to be answering
    about the road by a desert south of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanasir and the answer would be the Regular Army succeeded in securing this important road (if one believed that map, of course)

    So, I'll try to occasionally follow five direction:
    1. Aleppo (including access routes: "M5" and through Khanasir);
    2. Talbiseh pocket;
    3. Salma;
    4. suburbs of Damascus;
    5. Tall Sayyad salient (above)
    I said "occasionally", because I've gotten the book, let me see, "ISIS: Inside The Army Of Terror" by Weiss and Hassan and I consider to read it in coming days.

    Now to Moderators:
    • while trying to create this post, I noticed several recent and pathetic posts here apparently referring to Hitlerjugend (they popped up with There are more posts to display. View them? message) ... I'm not going to go back to see them, just please have a look if they're ... necessary
    • I've also noticed the Kremlin called recent US and British bomb-in-A321-flight statements to be speculations, and while I'm certainly not a speaking trumpet of the Kremlin :) I think it would be better to have a separate Thread, for various types of A321 announcements (now numerous media cry this one hour, something else next hour, to change it for a different story soon etc.)
    • I'll understand if you ignore my previous two points LOL
     
  5. Equation
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    Equation Lieutenant General

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    That is a lost of a lot of field officers and commanders and I'm sure they are having a difficult replacing them with the same competency and skills.
     
  6. Jura
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    Jura General

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    very interesting (dated Nov 04, 2015):
    A-10 Gunship Attacks Critical to Taking Town from ISIS: Pentagon
    source: http://www.military.com/daily-news/...itical-to-taking-town-from-isis-pentagon.html
     
  7. janjak desalin
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    janjak desalin Junior Member

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    Absolutely!

    War is simply an alternative means of diplomacy. I've anticipated, from the outset of the Russian campaign, that Putin might have learned from, and attempt to emulate, the greatest execution of military diplomacy in the 20th century, that being, the Cuban intervention in southwestern Africa. This 'military' action resulted in both the negotiated independence of Namibia from South Africa, and the negotiated end of the apartheid south african regime (deliberately non-capitalized), two accomplishments (in one) highly deserving of honorable mention.

    Your demographics based analysis regarding the political ramifications of the Aleppo objective is spot on, cutting to the core of the matter, illustrating precisely why the Aleppo campaign will be completed. Considering this, I've anticipated that, once regime coalition forces have surrounded FSA forces in Idlib Governorate, they might make the strategic decision to ignore highway M5 and utilize the alternate logistic supply-lines to complete the Aleppo campaign. Additionally, consistent with your prediction of a political settlement, I anticipate that in the course of the Aleppo campaign, as regime coalition forces gain the advantage, the regime may offer FSA coalition forces (Syrian nationals) safe passage from Aleppo Governorate to Idlib Governorate with the understanding that the FSA coalition will be allowed to maintain Idlib Governorate, and Idlib Governorate only, as a base in which to consolidate, and from which to negotiate.

    However, the Idlib/Aleppo scenario plays out, the Raqqa/Deir Ez Zor campaign is an inevitability. ISIL must be destroyed.

    and, btw, you anticipated the taking of Kuweires in a couple of days? rather, give them 'til after the weekend, after they've had a chance to utilize the Tartus to Hama to Salamiyah to Ithriyah to Khannasser to Safirah highway (the reasoning for my Hama to Aleppo highway offensive should, now, be obvious) to supply sufficient ordinance, and other goodies, to get the job done right.


     
    #2127 janjak desalin, Nov 5, 2015
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  8. janjak desalin
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    janjak desalin Junior Member

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    hey, nicky! great posts! may I make one suggestion? it would be helpful (contextually) to either zoom your maps out, or to provide a second map that would situate your subject location in relation to other action and at least one major reference point, e. g., a city or town in the governorate.
     
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  9. janjak desalin
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    janjak desalin Junior Member

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    #2129 janjak desalin, Nov 5, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
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  10. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    Wolf, I agree with this.

    I believe that in the end, before all is said and done, it will end up having to be something like what was done to defeat the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese.

    You have a culture amongst the truly radical Islamic Jihadists/Terrorists that is very near to the same mind set.

    While it is true that the average German was not a "true," believer, just the same, there were plenty who were, and the allure and the appeal to national pride that built up around Hitler and the dedicated Nazis pulled them in.

    The Imperial Japanese mindset with the Samurai/Bushido mindset was more wide spread, and very cultural for the population who believed and were raised to believe that their emperor was God.

    They had to be defeated without condition. Their entire societies were dismantled after the war...under constant occupation...and remade into more civilized governmental forms. This took decades...even after their total and complete defeat.

    I fear that the culture/populations that are supporting the likes of ISIS will ultimately have to go through the same, and fear that the will to do this is severely lacking.

    I also know that will is simply a very hard thing to engender (as it should be), and that it is apt to take much worse atrocities (As you spoke of) than we have seen to date to lead to it.

    Heck...even 911 only truly united folks in the US for a few months...when Pearl Harbor united the US until the war was over and won...and even then for decades thereafter to make the commitment necessary to keep it from happening again in Germany and Japan.

    I shudder to think what it might take to drive the western republics to that type of commitment today.

    But, I agree with you...in the end, the civilized world is going to have to set aside their differences (as they did in World War II) to absolutely and utterly defeat the likes of ISIS...and the cultures that spawn them. In that sense...such atrociies and such dangers ought to unite us, and ought to allow us to come together for all of our common good.

    To date...sadly, that has not happened. As I have said many times, the US should be working with Russia to take down ISIS. If it leaves Assad in place...fine. he is nothing like ISIS, and the people of Syria were not ever suffering under him (irrespective of what failings he may have) than they have and are under ISIS.
     
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