Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

Discussion in 'Strategic Defense' started by AndrewS, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. vesicles
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    vesicles Major

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    Meng has not done anything wrong. Why should she commit suicide? The Huawei lawsuit is not a scandal. And Meng is maintaining that she has not broken any international law and she is innocent. In fact, Huawei is suing the US now.

    In China, she has been considered as a fighter/heroine who is at the forefront of an effort that the Chinese as a whole is making to become great again. Why would a soldier kill himself/herself when he/she is at the front line in the heat of a fight? It makes no sense. Even in the most strict eastern Asian cultures, soldiers only kill themselves when they have lost the fight. Are you suggesting that Huawei and China are losing the battle? Ordinary people commit suicide because they have been involved in scandals and cannot clear their names. They kill themselves to minimize damage. In most cases, the suicide is meant to show that they are ashamed of what they have done and they are using the suicide as a way to apologize. Are you suggesting that Huawei's case is a scandal, they are guilty as charged and they should kill themselves to minimize damage??? Of course, people also commit suicide to show how angry they are and how much they disagree with how they have been treated. Again, that would mean the verdict has been made and they don't agree with it. Has the Huawei gotten its verdict? By committing suicide, Meng would have suggested that she has admitted to have lost the fight and she has given up the fight. A bad decision.

    Additionally, if/when she wins the fight, that means China has won the fight fair and square in the court of law. China will gain the upper hand, not only on the 5G market, but also on the moral/legal ground. That would be a complete and crystal clear victory. If she does anything stupid like committing suicide, that will complicate things so much. Even if she eventually wins the lawsuit, people will say that it is a pity win. That would be a moral loss.

    Even in the most strict East Asian society, committing suicide is a sign of weakness. Losers, wrongdoers and those too weak to change their destiny commit suicide. People forgive the sins of the bad people when they commit suicide. People feel sorry for those who have no choice but to kill themselves. Again, a sign of weakness. Those, who hold the moral/legal high ground and have confidence that they will win, will not do stupid things like committing suicide.
     
  2. N00813
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    N00813 Junior Member
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    Contingency plans:
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/14/18265646/huawei-operating-systems-android-windows-ban
    Huawei developed its own operating systems in case it’s banned from using Android and Windows

    Huawei has developed its own proprietary operating systems, and it’s ready to implement them in case its US legal battle leads to a ban on the export of US-made products and services like Android and Windows.

    “We have prepared our own operating system, if it turns out we can no longer use these systems, we will be ready and have our plan B,” Huawei executive Richard Yu shared in a recent interview with Die Welt. Huawei began working on an Android replacement as early as 2012 when the US opened an investigation into Huawei and ZTE, according to the South China Morning Post, and it was still developing the system in 2016. The announcement of its “plan B” operating system comes at a time when Huawei is ensnared in an ongoing legal battle with the US, which could result in the company being banned from receiving exports from the US. If it comes to that, Huawei says it will be ready.


    Recently, Huawei sued the US in response to a ban that prevents its tech from being used in “federal networks, effectively also preventing major government contractors from using Huawei equipment,” according to a report from The Verge’s Colin Lecher. Huawei’s suit states that the US “unconstitutionally singled out Huawei for punishment” and that a ban on Huawei would put America behind other regions in the race to build out 5G networks.

    Yu shared that Huawei would “prefer to work with the ecosystems of Google and Microsoft,” but that it’s ready to switch over to its in-house operating system should the legal climate worsen. Since Huawei makes the Kirin processors found in most of its smartphones, it would be in a much better position to weather a ban than ZTE, which suffered a three-month ban in 2018. That prevented ZTE from using Google’s Android operating system and from receiving exports from US companies to develop its smartphones.

    Even though it says it’s ready with an OS replacement for its computers, Huawei would need to find new hardware partners since it relies on Intel processors in its Windows laptops. With Intel and Qualcomm off the table and MediaTek processors generally reserved for cheaper, low-performance devices like Chromebooks, Huawei may need to start developing its own laptop-grade processors.
     
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  3. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    Maybe it is not that simple. The other example is Samsung's Exynos, only used by Samsung's own device. Both Samsung and Huawei are strong device makers who also get into chip making.

    From other phone makers perspective, Qualcomm want them to use Snapdragon, Qualcomm does not compete in making phones. The two are collaborators. Qualcomm of course can take advantage as the sole supplier, but that is countered by the possibility of pushing customers over the wall to Huawei and Samsung, or making their own chips. So long as both sides realize it and want to keep the status quo, they are happy. However, if other phone makers want to move to Huawei or Samsung chip, they will be subjected to both strangling of chip and competition of phone. It is worse than stay with a sole chip maker.

    So I think, even if Huawei and similarly Samsung wanted to spread their chip, others will be very hesitate to take up the offer.
     
  4. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    Huawei should consider using SMIC to fab some chips even if they use an older process. They could simply port over an older processor and also sell them to other vendors. Or alternatively someone needs to come up with an alternative to MediaTek processors that is manufactured in China. That should not be particularly hard.

    Samsung manufactures DRAM, NAND, and they have their own fabs. But I guess because of their large consumer electronics division they have more demand for their chip products too.
     
  5. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    theverge is keeping on playing up the sensation by making a non-existence case. Android is open source, the source code is open to be downloaded and reused, no law nor practical means can ban anyone to use it.
    Android is NOT an US-made product once Google has made it open source.
    The only thing left in Android OS that is owned by Google is any app including the play store that are made by Google LLC. US can ban Huawei to use these products. However, these are not part of Huawei devices sold inside China anyway, and China remains to be Huawei's biggest market. It does however affect Huawei's oversea market with little inconvenience. Even for that, someone can install these apps on Huawei devices after imported circumventing the ban. These apps are free and can be installed separately, I assume various operators or retailers can be that someone if the device is attractive enough.
     
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  6. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    Correct. As it is already Android can't be sold with Google apps as is in China and the Android phones sold in China are already custom builds of Android made by Chinese vendors. Android isn't a problem. The problem is hardware.
     
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  7. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    Using Qualcomm as chip against China is suicidal on US part. If US want to kill Qualcomm by taking away its most important single market, be my guest, that will just make Huawei take the whole Chinese market.

    What really worries me is some HWs that are not known by commoners, such as electrical-optical converter in backbone routers that Huawei and ZTE use. ZTE uses American sourced such component and was hardly hit. Huawei if purely based on commercial consideration may be using some as well. Switching to other vendors domestic or Japan and Europe takes a long time. The circuit need to be redesigned, program rewritten, production line being adjusted, new SW/HW combo needs to be retested. That takes months or a year. I hope Huawei and ZTE as well is already doing the switching as we speak.
     
  8. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    supporting SMIC and use it to balance out other Fabs are right way to go. But no need to worry too much. Although Intel is not reliable, TSMC is pretty safe despite Taiwan administrations rhetoric. TSMC have many plants in mainland, that is lots of money and therefor their commercial life. Turning hostile to mainland will get those money stuck permanently and TSMC essentially divided in half, all kinds of tricks can reach that effect, nasty ones. ;)
     
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  9. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    thanks for sharing, just would you please use a bigger font next time LOL it's ten pm here if you know what I mean
     
  10. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    I personally think that notion is pure trolling and insane that does not deserve any serious debate. No honest man sitting in his comfort sofa should expect or demand other people to die for his (the man) own perceived just and honour. If that man want defend honour, he should do it himself rather than pushing others off the cliff. This kind of behaviour has been observed during the time of Indian-China boarder conflict when keyboard warriors demanding PLA's firefight risking lives of young soldiers instead of letting the weather to play the course.
     
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