Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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tidalwave

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Still it is Huawei's fault for not considering more solid options in regards to financial transactions, moreover since Huawei is most certainly conducting this business outside of official government supervision, the fault lies doubly on them for not disclosing it to the MSS which would have most certainly prompted an inquiry unto the transactions in question.
Like I said, the MSS can only be held at fault for matters that are brought to their attention or are in their purview, Huawei's actions falls into neither of them. HK is still special administrative territory, and will continue to be so until 2057. So like it or not the MSS has little to no jurisdiction there.

I can name a few, namely the Jerry Chun Shing Lee case which dismantled US intelligence network in China. The situation is exactly the same as that of HSBC, a compromised invidual was liased by foreign agents and the damage was uncovered only to late, such is the nature if intelligence work. Putting an intelligence to use will almost certainly blow the cover of the ones divulging the info, but not putting it to use renders it useless.

Again, it's not a compromised individual case like you described, it's an institution, HSBC, giving permission to US to dig up old records. Upper management of HSBC knows the situation.
Well, yeah, an individual is harder to track but not an institution.
China may not have outright jurisdiction in HK but it should have eyes, ears to find out first hand what's going on and have its own secret agents to preempt such things. They should find out who's the designated point of contact inside the bank with FBI and have him assasinated , just an example.
 
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tidalwave

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Those employees of HSBC in HK involved in colluding with US government have basically committed Act of Treason, should be punishable by death.

If CCP let this slip by ,or still not awared of how the situation unfolded and dont do anything, then they are just paper tiger.
 
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weig2000

Captain
As expected, the US is raising the stake in their ban-Huawei campaign, threatening ti curtail intelligence sharing with Germany if the latter allows Huawei to participate in Germany's 5G network build-out. We'll see how effective the threat will be, to Germany, as well as other countries.

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Letter from Washington explicitly warns Berlin that cooperation will be scaled back if Germany uses Huawei equipment

By Asia Times staff

A US campaign to scare European allies away from using Chinese telecommunications equipment went up in flames over the past several months, most recently evidenced by Germany’s decision last week not to ban the gear from its next-generation wireless network.

But Washington is not ready to give up, and has reportedly told Berlin that it will have to limit intelligence sharing with its close NATO ally if it allows Huawei to provide 5G network equipment.

US Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell wrote in a letter to German economic minister Peter Altmaier that such cooperation would have to be scaled back,
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.

Despite US claims to the contrary, Germany has insisted that there is no evidence Huawei has or will use its gear to engage in espionage. Last week, Berlin released a revised policy to strengthen security measures for networks, but that the standards will not target specific companies.

An official from the German Economic Ministry dismissed the letter from Grenell, saying that it included no new information and reiterating that there was no evidence to support US claims that Huawei posed a risk.

The same official also raised the issue of a recent lawsuit filed by Huawei against the US government, alleging that a ban was unconstitutional for targeting the firm without evidence. In accordance with the law, the official said, any ban would require proof.

While Australia, New Zealand and Japan all issued policies last year to restrict the involvement of Chinese firms in building 5G networks, European countries have not followed suit. The UK has yet to release official determinations on related security policy, but top intelligence officials have already indicated that London will decide against a ban.
 

CMP

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"An official from the German Economic Ministry dismissed the letter from Grenell, saying that it included no new information and reiterating that there was no evidence to support US claims that Huawei posed a risk.

The same official also raised the issue of a recent lawsuit filed by Huawei against the US government, alleging that a ban was unconstitutional for targeting the firm without evidence. In accordance with the law, the official said, any ban would require proof."

This tells me that Germany's spine is firming up even in the face of additional U.S. pressure.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
You are the worst team player I have ever seen. Actually Chinese and US intelligence both rank at the top of the world so either one pulling one off on the other is not unusual. Of course, this, assuming it is true, (can you provide a source for your claims?) definitely qualifies as a learning experience that Chinese intelligence can improve from but it certainly doesn't qualify as a massive failure (which indicates an easy solution was ruined by severe incompetence). This is basically you throwing a tantrum at the TV, cursing out your basketball team and calling them massive failures every time the rival team scores in the NBA finals. Be a team player and don't be that guy who pulls out the blame finger every time something happens.


Well, the fact that the other basketball team also scores in the game doesn't exactly mean that your team is slacking off. And your knowledge (or rather lack thereof) on the intricacies of international espionage does not qualify you to determine what was a nearly unavoidable mistake and what was just slacking off.


China has done much more than infiltrate an American bank before. China has taken entire American nuclear warhead plans and more.
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supercat

Major
As expected, the US is raising the stake in their ban-Huawei campaign, threatening ti curtail intelligence sharing with Germany if the latter allows Huawei to participate in Germany's 5G network build-out. We'll see how effective the threat will be, to Germany, as well as other countries.

ROFL, remember the fiasco that NSA was tapping Merkel's phone calls? So what Germans are expecting to get from the U.S. intelligence, Merkel's private conversations? Let's not forget that Merkel is still in power. The U.S. is really getting desperate by making such laughable demand, considering how they offended the Germans in 2013.
 

weig2000

Captain
Looking beyond the headlines and short-term scorecard in this US vs. Huawei saga, this report, written before the recent MWC, reveals some of the real thinking behind the ban-Huawei campaign. Incidentally, none of them has anything to do with Huawei spying on behalf of Chinese government. It's really about the US anxiety of falling behind in 5G technology and the rolling out of the network, as well as "pushing Huawei out of the picture." Interestingly enough, the characters behind this are Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove and other conservatives. Tells you something.

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Conservative voices call for a ‘wireless moonshot’ ahead of the Mobile World Congress but skepticism abounds

By Christopher Scott

Ahead of the world’s largest gathering of mobile technology players in Barcelona next week, it appears that the US has all but thrown in the towel in its campaign to get allies to block China’s Huawei from building 5G (fifth-generation wireless) networks. President Donald Trump went so far as to tweet on Thursday morning that the US needs to win through competition, “not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies.”

To this point, a cadre of Trump administration allies is pushing for a new strategy to compete with Chinese firms in the deployment of next-generation wireless technology. The only problem is, experts say, the scheme is either a cynical business play or reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the race to build 5G networks.

Outside Trump adviser and former Republican congressman Newt Gingrich made the pitch in an editorial this week, warning that the US needs to roll out a policy of “open market access wireless.”

The US “needs to put it [this model] forward right now, before or during the meeting in Barcelona. If we don’t, this year’s Mobile World Congress risks turning into a victory lap for Huawei and Beijing,” Gingrich argued.

He acknowledged that the UK – a close US intelligence-sharing ally – will likely not ban Huawei gear from 5G networks. His fears contrast Huawei’s confidence ahead of the exhibition next week.

“If you are asking about how big our 5G lead is – you can ask our customers,” Huawei carrier business group president Ryan Ding
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. “I firmly believe that all our competitors now have usable 5G base stations. However, usable is different from good,” he added.

America’s ‘wireless moonshot’?
The open-access market approach to which Gingrich referred has been pushed for several years now by a small firm called Rivada, which also boasts the support of venture capitalist and Trump supporter Peter Thiel. While Gingrich agrees with Rivada chief executive officer Declan Ganley that the model “will increase return on new investment and accelerate investment in American 5G” and thus represent a “wireless moonshot,” industry experts express skepticism.

“Newt Gingrich is correct in that we need a different model from the Chinese. But that model is not an open-access experimental technology,” Doug Brake, director of spectrum policy at the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation (ITIF), told Asia Times.

“What’s going on,” Brake suggested, “is [Rivada] has some technology that may or may not be pretty innovative but hasn’t exactly been proven out.… They have been working to now lobby federal spectrum users in an attempt to essentially become a middleman.

“I think this a pretty narrow advocacy attempt by a particular corporation,” Brake added.

The argument that Rivada’s Ganley makes is in essence that unlocking value by changing the pricing model of broadband spectrum will allow network operators to spend more on equipment, buying more expensive gear from Nokia, Ericsson or Samsung, which they would do for security reasons. According to his theory, this would help push Huawei out of the picture, as he suggested at an event on promoting US leadership in 5G at the Hudson Institute in November.

Free-market strength vs China’s ‘shoddy equipment’
This policy plays to America’s strengths, Ganley argued alongside another conservative advocate of the model, Karl Rove, who previously served as chief of staff to US president George W Bush.

During the same panel event at the Washington-based think tank, Rove argued that China’s strong government involvement in the technology sector was a weakness, and the US would ultimately win the race because private sector competition is a stronger model in this space.

The Chinese “have got a reputation for shoddy equipment, and shoddy deployment, and we can exploit that by having a better product,” Rove said, dismissing widespread recognition among mobile network operators and industry experts that Huawei equipment and service are equal or superior to competitors in many areas.

James Lewis, a technology policy specialist and senior vice-president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), told Asia Times that, to the contrary, lack of government funding is holding the US back.

“Our biggest problem is the unwillingness of Republicans to pay taxes,” Lewis said. “This means no infrastructure or basic research. I believe the Reverend Gingrich had a hand in this and it is where the Chinese have a real advantage.”

Others have noted that US firms once at the forefront of making core wireless network equipment already have plenty of private capital to spend, but lack market incentives to invest in the area because it is not lucrative.

Missing the point
In the end, Huawei’s dominance in building infrastructure and core components for 5G deployment is an entirely different issue from spectrum policy, ITIF’s Brake said.

“There are a lot of different components to wireless systems that are often conflated when discussing 5G generally or the economic competition between the US and China. Manufacturing of 5G equipment, especially the radio equipment – the base stations of the network – is not something the US participates in,” Brake noted.

The competition to assemble the physical components through which 5G applications will run “is a very different issue from the spectrum policy,” he added.

According to Lewis of CSIS, the open-access wireless proposal “is either a misunderstanding of the market and the technology or some kind of business play for the spectrum market.”

Nonetheless, there are signs the Trump administration may be considering the policy as part of a broader strategy to become competitive in 5G. The US president signed a memorandum in October directing his top technology adviser to submit a report on priorities “that advance spectrum access and efficiency.” In advance of those recommendations, which are due by this spring, Huawei will be using the exhibition in Barcelona next week to showcase just how big a foothold they already have in the European market.
 

CMP

Senior Member
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Why not both? For some of their advocates, it's a cynical business play. For some of their advocates, it's ignorance.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
As expected, the US is raising the stake in their ban-Huawei campaign, threatening ti curtail intelligence sharing with Germany if the latter allows Huawei to participate in Germany's 5G network build-out. We'll see how effective the threat will be, to Germany, as well as other countries.

This is the complete opposite of free market competition they so prescribe to the rest of the developing world. What an example US is showing to the world. Free market is what they say, not what they do if the circumstances don't favor them, working actively to undermine a competitive player with dirty political hand-wringings and overt public threats to sovereign states with exaggerated baseless accusations. This protectionist, defeatist ideology would only impede progress. Only consumers will suffer from this serious blatant infringement upon fair competition.
 
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