Iranian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Khalij e Fars

Junior Member
Registered Member
China doesn't seem to be interested in selling J-10C and Iran won't accept watered down version.

Adrian Darya did not move much, she is transferring oil to some of the 3/4 other Iranian tankers off Syria before turning GPS back on and returning to Iran via Suez. Within 2-3 days.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
China doesn't seem to be interested in selling J-10C and Iran won't accept watered down version.
It’s a hypothetical at best.
Being blunt if they were offered even a watered down version, it would be better than what they have.
The Iranian Air Force is dated.
The most advanced known fighter is the Mig29, 9.12A Brand new circa 1982. It still used manual controls. Most Mig 29 of this vintage have undergone major overhaul or replaced them.
They have done some home grown upgrades sure we know a few but most of it is lack luster at best. Aimed to keep the wings from falling off.
A handful of F14A long retired from the USN and dating to when Ozzy was crowned the Prince of Darkness, 1979!
F4D Phantom II relics from The 60s. Most users have already retired this type.
F5E and F models that though versatile are very vintage. They cloned it but it’s hardly much more than a flight trainer.
Second hand Iraqi Mirage Fighters and F7M not much better than the F5.
Su24 ground attackers again second hand.
It’s almost a flying air museum with a unique mix of swing wings.

There is a huge technology gap that refits can only patch to degrees.
 
it's actually interesting
New US-Led Patrols in Persian Gulf Raise Stakes with Iran
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As the U.S. tries a new way to protect shipping across the Persian Gulf amid tensions with Iran, it finds itself sailing into uncertain waters.

For decades, the U.S. has considered the waters of the Persian Gulf as critical to its national security. Through the gulf's narrow mouth, the Strait of Hormuz, 20% of all crude oil sold passes onto the world market. Any disruption there likely will see energy prices spike.

The U.S. has been willing to use its firepower to ensure that doesn't happen. It escorted ships here in the so-called 1980s "Tanker War." America fought its last major naval battle in these waters in 1988 against Iran.

Now, the
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is trying to put together a new coalition of nations to counter what it sees as a renewed maritime threat from Iran. But the situation decades later couldn't be more different.

The U.S. public is fatigued from years of Mideast warfare after the Sept. 11 attacks. The demand for Persian Gulf oil has switched to Asia. Gulf Arab nations poured billions of dollars into their own weapons purchases while inviting a host of nations to station their own forces here, even as infighting dominates their relations.

Meanwhile, Iran finds itself backed into a corner and ready for a possible conflict it had 30 years for which to prepare. It stands poised this week to further break the terms of its 2015 nuclear deal with world powers, over a year after President Donald Trump unilaterally withdrew America from the accord and imposed crippling sanctions on the country.

"It is plausible to imagine a scenario where these forces stumble into some type of accidental escalation," said Becca Wasser, a senior policy analyst at the RAND Corp. who studies the region. "While U.S. efforts are intended to deter, Iran may view increased U.S. maritime presence as offensive in nature or as preparation for a larger attack on Iran and respond accordingly."

THE SENTINEL PROGRAM
The U.S.-led Sentinel Program aims to secure the broader Persian Gulf region. It includes surveillance of the Strait of Hormuz and the Bab el-Mandeb, another narrow strait that connects the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden off Yemen and East Africa. Smaller patrol boats and other craft will be available for rapid response.

The plan also allows for nations to escort their own ships through the region, said Cmdr. Joshua Frey, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet, which oversees the region. For now, the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet is not escorting U.S.-flagged ships through waters, though that remains a possibility, he said.

So far, only Australia, Bahrain and the United Kingdom have said they'll join the U.S. program. India has begun escorting its own ships independently of the U.S. coalition, while China has suggested it could get involved as well.

The U.S. Navy has sent Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers to chokepoint positions, like either end of the Strait of Hormuz. There, they observe ship traffic and monitor for anything unusual as drones and other aircraft fly surveillance routes overhead, Frey said.

Some of what the U.S. plan calls for already falls under the routine operations of the 5th Fleet, which has been in the region since 1995. U.S. Navy ships coming in and out of the Persian Gulf often find themselves shadowed by Iranian Revolutionary Guard vessels. Some incidents have seen the U.S. fire warning shots or Iranian forces test-fire missiles nearby.

What's different now though is shippers find themselves under attack. The U.S. blames Iran for the apparent limpet mine explosions on four vessels in May and another two in June sailing in the Gulf of Oman near the Strait of Hormuz, something Iran denies being behind. Iran also seized a British-flagged oil tanker and another based in the United Arab Emirates.

Facing growing financial pressure from U.S. sanctions on its oil industry, Iran has sought diplomatic support from those still in the deal, while increasing pressure militarily as well. Even President Hassan Rouhani, who had supported rapprochement with the U.S. in the run-up to the 2015 deal, has been threatening to close off the Strait of Hormuz if Tehran can't sell its oil abroad.

"If someday, the United States decides to block Iran's oil, no oil will be exported from the Persian Gulf," he told a cheering crowd in December 2018.

That raises the stakes for conflict.

"The United States is not seeking a military confrontation, and are certainly not soliciting international support for any provocation," Frey said. "With that said, while the intent of our presence is deterrence and stability, we are prepared to defend (coalition) member nations' interests from attacks in the maritime domain."

But it won't be just the United States involved if things spin out of control, nor will it likely be confined to the high seas.

THE MILITARIZED GULF
Since the 1980 Carter Doctrine, the U.S. has vowed to use its military power to defend its interests in the oil-rich Persian Gulf. That saw America enter the "Tanker War" toward the end of the 1980s Iran-Iraq war, in which U.S. naval ships escorted reflagged Kuwaiti oil tankers. It culminated in a one-day naval battle between Washington and Tehran, and also saw America accidentally shoot down an Iranian passenger jet, killing 290 people.

The 1991 Gulf War, in which a U.S.-led coalition expelled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's troops from Kuwait, further cemented America's presence, as did its later wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

"The Gulf states have long sought to give external nations a stake in their security and have done so through basing agreements and lucrative arms sales," said Wasser, the RAND analyst. "This build up is likely to continue because the Gulf states see it as a net gain for their security."

And it hasn't just been the Americans in recent years boosting their presence. The French run their own naval base out of Abu Dhabi, the Emirati capital. The British, who withdrew their forces from the Gulf in the 1970s, recently reopened a naval base in Bahrain. Even Turkey under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan opened a military base in Qatar.

For Iran, it can only look at the wider build-up with suspicion, especially as the U.S. and its coalition bring more warships to the region. While the U.S. and the U.K. had no choice but to respond to the Iranian attacks, their increasing presence can heighten tensions, said Michael Stephens, a senior research fellow who focuses on the Mideast at London's Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies.

"When you change the chessboard, you are effectively permanently changing the conditions under which you're operating," Stephens said. "How you cannot make that look like an escalation is anyone's guess because it is an escalation."

Iran itself hasn't sat still. The Guard, a paramilitary force answerable only to Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, pilot speedboats through the Strait of Hormuz and run drills practicing swarming larger warships. It possesses shore-to-ship missiles. It also, according to U.S. officials, has special forces capable of sneaking up on unsuspecting ships to plant explosive mines.

The "rules" that govern military confrontations in the Persian Gulf seem to be changing, Stephens said, with the growing U.S. Navy operation, Iran's willingness to seize and allegedly attack ships, and the collapsing nuclear deal pushing Tehran toward drastic action.

"They're very good at trolling politically. They're very good at trolling tactically," he said about Iran's leadership. "As long as it doesn't spark a conflict, they kind of come out on top. That's how it works."

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the rest of
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:
THE DANGERS AHEAD
One of the immediate dangers is in the response to Iran itself. During the Somali piracy crisis of the 2000s, the rush of navies to the region saw fishermen wrongly targeted for attack in at least one incident, said Salvatore R. Mercogliano, a former merchant mariner and associate professor of history at North Carolina's Campbell University.

Adding additional forces, especially those that may not respond to a single command and exercise different rules of engagement, could raise the risks of a conflict, Mercogliano said. Trying to run convoys of ships through the areas also would slow down traffic and delay shipments. Meanwhile, the Guard's small fast boats easily can be missed among the fishermen and traditional dhow ships moving through the busy waters.

"It is a very difficult area to track any traffic just due to the huge amount of numbers in that area," Mercogliano said. "If you only have a few ships on patrol, a few air assets, a few drone assets, it's very easy to get lured one way or another and miss something."

Meanwhile, U.S. authorities warn that ships in the region have reported "spoofed bridge-to-bridge communications from unknown entities falsely claiming to be U.S. or coalition warships." Ships also have reported interference with their GPS systems, according to the U.S. Transportation Department's Maritime Administration. That could see ships accidentally enter Iranian territorial waters and offer a pretense for its forces to board.

For international business, the risks could be clearly seen after crude oil prices jumped nearly 4% after the June limpet mine attacks in the Gulf of Oman. Even though the majority of the oil and natural gas passing through the Strait of Hormuz now heads to Asia, prices could spike again.

Insurance premiums for shipments shot up in the area after the June limpet mine attacks by 10%, with additional war-risk premiums costing around $100,000, according to the market data firm Refinitiv.

For mariners in the region, the Strait of Hormuz has been declared a temporary extended risk zone, qualifying them for a bonus and higher death and disability coverage. And while the mariners may be on Western-owned or -flagged vessels, many come from poorer countries in Eastern Europe or Asia. The 23 crewmembers aboard the Stena Impero, the British-flagged oil tanker seized by Iran on July 19 and still held today, are Filipino, Indian, Latvian and Russian.

"The normal seafarers are the ones being caught up in this geopolitical game," said Jacqueline Smith, the maritime coordinator for International Transportation Workers' Federation.
 

Khalij e Fars

Junior Member
Registered Member
It’s a hypothetical at best.
Being blunt if they were offered even a watered down version, it would be better than what they have.
The Iranian Air Force is dated.
The most advanced known fighter is the Mig29, 9.12A Brand new circa 1982. It still used manual controls. Most Mig 29 of this vintage have undergone major overhaul or replaced them.
They have done some home grown upgrades sure we know a few but most of it is lack luster at best. Aimed to keep the wings from falling off.
A handful of F14A long retired from the USN and dating to when Ozzy was crowned the Prince of Darkness, 1979!
F4D Phantom II relics from The 60s. Most users have already retired this type.
F5E and F models that though versatile are very vintage. They cloned it but it’s hardly much more than a flight trainer.
Second hand Iraqi Mirage Fighters and F7M not much better than the F5.
Su24 ground attackers again second hand.
It’s almost a flying air museum with a unique mix of swing wings.

There is a huge technology gap that refits can only patch to degrees.
Everything about Iran's defence strategy is asymmetric and leveraging certain advantages to defeat a larger enemy, e.g. strategic depth.

Conventional warfare via a strong airforce is not important for this strategy. If the US invades Iran even a fleet of 100 J-10s + 50 su-30s would be toast within a week.

Iran's drone programme on the other hand is very strong and the strongest in the region (s-129, Saeqeh, Simorgh).

I take your points but, for the record, Kowsar jet (F-5 clone) has heavily upgraded everything minus airframe to 4th Gen standard. Still antiquated but there are strong sanctions and the air force gets very little budget, so no hope for much better than incremental upgrades to this.
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Everything about Iran's defence strategy is asymmetric and leveraging certain advantages to defeat a larger enemy, e.g. strategic depth.

Conventional warfare via a strong airforce is not important for this strategy. If the US invades Iran even a fleet of 100 J-10s + 50 su-30s would be toast within a week.

Iran's drone programme on the other hand is very strong and the strongest in the region (s-129, Saeqeh, Simorgh).

I take your points but, for the record, Kowsar jet (F-5 clone) has heavily upgraded everything minus airframe to 4th Gen standard. Still antiquated but there are strong sanctions and the air force gets very little budget, so no hope for much better than incremental upgrades to this.
I did find that claim skeptical, sure Iran makes a lot of drones (supposedly), but a good number of these drones are either static displays (meaning we are not sure if they are even operational) or their designs's only allows them to exert their full potential in a environment with little to no enemy air defense or fighters. If Iran has such drones like the Harpy or had demonstrated a capability to built and command drone swarms that did be a different story, but its current drone lineup is not going to do much against a competent enemy air force. But this is a scenario that is common with even the US,Russia and China.
And to be fair a capable airforce has a role to play in asymmetric warfare, by leveraging a decent AA and EW network to gain an advantage over the opposing force. Su-30s and J-10s lobbing long range AAMs and air to surface missiles a just within the cover of Iran's AA defence can prove to be a persistent threat. As how North Vietnam utilized it's own fighters against the USAF during the Vietnam War. Fighter dispersion, harden and camouflaged airbases can all help towards an asymmetrical warfare, in fact I did think that China and Russia can teach Tehran a thing or two regarding this.
There is only so much that Iran can squeeze out of the F-5 without seriously redesigning the airframe, but at this point of time the Kowsar will have to do it for Tehran as you put it so aptly.
 
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Khalij e Fars

Junior Member
Registered Member
I did find that claim skeptical, sure Iran makes a lot of drones (supposedly), but a good number of these drones are either static displays (meaning we are not sure if they are even operational) or their designs's only allows them to exert their full potential in a environment with little to no enemy air defense or fighters. If Iran has such drones like the Harpy or had demonstrated a capability to built and command drone swarms that did be a different story, but its current drone lineup is not going to do much against a competent enemy air force. But this is a scenario that is common with even the US,Russia and China.
And to be fair a capable airforce has a role to play in asymmetric warfare, by leveraging a decent AA and EW network to gain an advantage over the opposing force. Su-30s and J-10s lobbing long range AAMs and air to surface missiles a just within the cover of Iran's AA defence can prove to be a persistent threat. As how North Vietnam utilized it's own fighters against the USAF during the Vietnam War. Fighter dispersion, harden and camouflaged airbases can all help towards an asymmetrical warfare, in fact I did think that China and Russia can teach Tehran a thing or two regarding this.
There is only so much that Iran can squeeze out of the F-5 without seriously redesigning the airframe, but at this point of time the Kowsar will have to do it for Tehran as you put it so aptly.
S-129 has been in operation for almost 10 years now, with several upgraded generations manufactured and also in operation. SATCOM variants have been shown in use in Syria:


[early non-SATCOM basic version carrying out strikes in Syria]

Saeqeh drone with internal weapons bay was used to strike ISIS targets in Syria last year as well:


Multiple S-129s and Saeqehs (and more) drones (50 in total) took part in a large drill over the Persian Gulf last year as well (could not find a better video, but at least 4 Saeqehs took part):


Iran at MAKS 2019 unveiled a new low RCS drone:
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[but this one is not known to be in operation yet]

I agree with you about (limited) benefits of strong airforce, in 2020 I expect Iran to import some 4+ gen jets from Russia (su-30 most likely in my opinion).
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
S-129 has been in operation for almost 10 years now, with several upgraded generations manufactured and also in operation. SATCOM variants have been shown in use in Syria:


[early non-SATCOM basic version carrying out strikes in Syria]

Saeqeh drone with internal weapons bay was used to strike ISIS targets in Syria last year as well:


Multiple S-129s and Saeqehs (and more) drones (50 in total) took part in a large drill over the Persian Gulf last year as well (could not find a better video, but at least 4 Saeqehs took part):


Iran at MAKS 2019 unveiled a new low RCS drone:
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[but this one is not known to be in operation yet]

I agree with you about (limited) benefits of strong airforce, in 2020 I expect Iran to import some 4+ gen jets from Russia (su-30 most likely in my opinion).
True, but again these drones are analogues to the Predator series of drones which are only really useful in a low threat enviroment, once the enemy breaks out anything more serious than a manpad, we did be seeing the Iranian version of the Global Hawk all over the battlefield. Also the S-129s in Syria as said to be ground controlled variants, not SATCOM, with the operators being present in Syria itself.
It is very difficult to solely utilize drones in a asymmetrical war, as even the best of them are still lacking the the decision making capabilities and reaction times that a human pilot possess. They can be used in as a force multiplier, forcing enemies to expend munitions to take them down instead of focusing on pilots. But expecting them to hold tide against a competent enemy is asking for too much.
If a airforce is strong it would not be "limited" but that would require Iran possessing a comprehensive fleet including AWACS and EW crafts to support its fighters.
 

Khalij e Fars

Junior Member
Registered Member
True, but again these drones are analogues to the Predator series of drones which are only really useful in a low threat enviroment, once the enemy breaks out anything more serious than a manpad, we did be seeing the Iranian version of the Global Hawk all over the battlefield. Also the S-129s in Syria as said to be ground controlled variants, not SATCOM, with the operators being present in Syria itself.
It is very difficult to solely utilize drones in a asymmetrical war, as even the best of them are still lacking the the decision making capabilities and reaction times that a human pilot possess. They can be used in as a force multiplier, forcing enemies to expend munitions to take them down instead of focusing on pilots. But expecting them to hold tide against a competent enemy is asking for too much.
If a airforce is strong it would not be "limited" but that would require Iran possessing a comprehensive fleet including AWACS and EW crafts to support its fighters.
My original claim was that Iran has strongest drone fleet in the region, now you are shifting goalposts to utility of drones in a full-scale military conflict with a peer nation.

Saeqeh is nothing to do with Predator. Saeqeh can take off from roof of ordinary trucks and is LO with internal weapons bay. Uses latest Qaem PGM variants with claimed CEP of 0.5m (revealed a few weeks ago along with video footage). Very survivable with very low footprint thus suitable for asymmetric warfare (unlike S-129).

My core belief is that waging conventional war against US is pointless and not cost-effective. Airforce is extremely expensive to procure and maintain, cannot compete with USAF and sitting duck in case of war against a conventionally superior opponent. Thus makes little sense for Iran to waste hundreds of billions on airforce like Saudis, Iran has very small military budget in comparison and must make difficult decisions.

However I agree that AWACS are sorely needed and would benefit Iran a lot in terms of early detection and AD.

PS. S-129 is SATCOM capable as the video(s) show and confirmed by Iran.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Every say, the US stoops to a new level of desperation and ugliness. Attempting to bribe the captain of the Iranian ship?? And when that failed, threatening to sanction him? Are any Americans not ashamed of this behavior? I applaud the Indian captain of the ship for holding strong to his morals; clearly Iran had much trust in him to send him instead of an Iranian captain for this crucial mission.

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US offered millions in cash to captain of Iranian tanker
Shaun TANDON
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•September 4, 2019

Washington (AFP) - A senior US official personally offered several million dollars to the Indian captain of an Iranian oil tanker suspected of heading to Syria, the State Department confirmed Wednesday.

The Financial Times reported that Brian Hook, the State Department pointman on Iran, sent emails to captain Akhilesh Kumar in which he offered "good news" of millions in US cash to live comfortably if he steered the Adrian Darya 1 to a country where it could be seized.

Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif mocked Hook's initiative as he pointed to the Financial Times story.

"Having failed at piracy, the US resorts to outright blackmail -- deliver us Iran's oil and receive several million dollars or be sanctioned yourself," Zarif tweeted.

US authorities said that Kumar, 43, took over as captain in Gibraltar. After he apparently did not respond to the US offer, the Treasury Department on Friday imposed sanctions both on the ship and on Kumar himself, freezing any assets he may have in the United States and criminalizing any US financial transactions with him.
 
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