Indian missiles: what went wrong with them?

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Now, this article is about four years old so it probably doesn't apply to current standards, but it does raise an eyebrow to what happened after the Kargil period. Please, no flammers or country bashing. Please discuss in a civilized manner.

Toothless Tigers:

Milan, a surface-to-surface missile that could not be fired during the Kargil war, explodes in the factory where it is being manufactured. laugh.gif

Trishul, an all-weather surface-to-air missile, the non-delivery of which has hit the Indian Navy hard, blows up in an arms depot. laugh.gif

Something seems to be going wrong with the indigenous missiles being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation since the last two decades.

DRDO officials insist they are not facing any problems. But two explosions in less than four months -- one at Hyderabad and the other in Cochin -- are beginning to raise questions about India's missile programme. They have resulted in the destruction of an unknown number of Milan missiles and in yet another delay on the delivery of the crucial Trishul missile system which has, for years now, been the DRDO's flagship project.

There are no answers to what happened at Bharat Dynamics Limited, the DRDO's Hyderabad-based production centre for missile systems, on January 4. Milan, a second-generation anti-tank guided missile, exploded as it was accidentally released during an inspection by a high-level team led by Defence Secretary Yogesh Narain. It charred quality control inspector Narasimhachari and seriously injured five others. The DRDO announced a high-level inquiry into the incident, but its report has been kept secret.

Meanwhile, BDL, the hub of the country's ambitious Integrated Guided Missile Programme, is faced with another serious crisis: how to resurrect nearly 1,000 Milan and Konkur missiles that were damaged in the explosion.

When the Milan missile blew up and a fire erupted in BDL, the panicky firemen and in-house security personnel doused the entire range of missiles stored in BDL's explosives unit. The resultant eight inches of water that flooded the area, say official sources, has virtually ruined the missiles.

"The Milan accident and the water-logging of hundreds of other missiles has hit our delivery schedule of these weapons to the Indian Army," conceded a BDL official even as he said efforts were on to repair the water-damaged missiles.

BDL has, under a technology transfer agreement with Euromissile -- an international consortium of the French Aerospatiale Group and the German MBB Group -- been manufacturing the Milan since 1981. Similarly, the Konkurs have been developed under a licence agreement with Russia. BDL has even perfected a special kit and propeller that can launch Milans and Konkurs both from the ground and from army vehicles.

The defence ministry formed BDL in 1970. The DRDO's most prestigious agency, it is also responsible for the manufacture of the indigenous Prithvi. These missiles, which are produced at a cost of Rs 35 million each, are stored at the BDL factory. Which is why the Milan explosion has the DRDO worried.

Since 1999, both the DRDO and BDL have been carrying out numerous tests on the Milan to find out why they performed so dismally during the Kargil war. The army deployed nearly 200 Milans in Kargil, but could not use many of them. The DDRO, though, claims it is incorrect to say the Milans failed in Kargil. "They could not be fired because of the height in Kargil. The missile is technologically perfect," says a senior DRDO official.

BDL officials say the very fact that the army has placed an additional order of 250 Milans proves the superiority of these missiles. Yet, certain aspects continue to remain cause for worry.

Officials reveal the DRDO has a secret report, which cites "substandard material" as the reason for its accidental explosion in Hyderabad. Besides, the Central Bureau of Investigation has already probed allegations of kickbacks, which surfaced five years ago during the purchase of Milan spares. According to the CBI, BDL bought 4,000 units of spare parts for Milan from a Czechoslovakian company at the cost of US $500,000 without calling for tenders. It is these imported spares that may be "the substandard material" behind the Milan explosion.

Are substandard materials and spares also being used in the production of the Trishul? DRDO officials vehemently deny this. But they cannot explain why a Trishul missile exploded in the Naval Armament Depot in Cochin on April 10. The missile was bought from BDL to Cochin to be test-fired by the Southern Naval Command. It blew up when being tested by engineers and technicians, killing one BDL engineer and injuring three.

DRDO says a high-level technical team is probing the mishap. Its report, though, is unlikely to be made public. What is certain is that the Trishul, whose non-induction has hit the Indian Navy hard, continues to remain a mirage for the armed forces.

The Trishul's development actually began in 1983; it was scheduled to be ready by 1992. But the project, on which the DRDO has already spent Rs 2.6 billion, is still undergoing trials. The major problem is that the missile's command guidance does not work. Was this the reason for the explosion in Cochin?

"No," says a DRDO engineer. "That happened because of some serious electric problems in the missile. Because of the explosion, the Trishul will remain in our lab for further testing for some more months."

DRDO officials privately concede that the blast will considerably delay the ambitious project to indigenously develop and induct the missile into the navy. The DDRO has been trying to build and induct the Trishul -- along with the Prithvi, Akash, Agni and Nag -- into the armed forces for nearly two decades now. But its track record has been far from satisfactory. CLAPING.GIF

In fact, the navy has often registered its protest about the prolonged delay in the delivery of missiles like the Trishul. Last year, it had perforce to commission the state-of-the-art missile frigate, INS Brahmaputra, without the Trishul. In the continued absence of the Trishul, Israel's tried and tested Barak missile system is proving a favourite with the Navy.

The Trishul incorporates state-of-the-art beam guidance technology that can effectively counter an adversary aircraft or sea-skimming missile. As of now, an Indian naval ship without a missile like the Trishul is like a toothless tiger. The question is: how long will the navy continue to pin its hopes on a missile that the DRDO has been promising to induct for years?

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Now, has the Trishul been inducted in the IN yet? Are there plans to induct it in the IN? I know for a fact that the Akash missile (probably a decent copy of the SA-6) has been ordered by the Army, but what about the Trishul?
 

jatt

Junior Member
TheTrishul was back then put up as a tech demonstrator. It was recently resurected with some help from the Babur missile threat. I know the army has only upgraded a number of the old Gecko Sams which would have been replaced by Trishul. It seems unlikily that anything else could meet the requirments for the army's low altitude quick reaction sam. The airforce had a tender with the Isreali Spyder, and VLS Mica but with the recent number of Trishul firings it seems airforce will likily purchase it as well. The Navy OTH still has requirments for Trishul while at the same time using Barak SAMs on some of the ships since its easy to install. The annual drdo mod report said that a VLS Trishul is in works. The Ships that were orginally meant to have Trishul have VLS Barak now. The OSA-M on the P-16 frigates has been replaced by Barak. Ships like the P-25A would have had a boxed launcher and still the ships have no SAMs. So the need is still their. The VLS Trishul should have been there to replace the OSA-M on the P-16 along time ago. But the InN will definitly have boxed launchers on the P-25A and some versions for the next P-28 crovettes aswell. The Trishuls reaction time does prove promising.
As for the Akash, its being modified to get longer ranges of 60 km and DRDO is developing a 100 km missile aswell. DRDO already has a 3d PAR and an advanced on capable of tracking BM's in the works. VLS Akash is being considered for the navy aswell.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Well the "india related thread" ban is evidently lifted off (hmm who did it? Me? No...) so quess i try it too...




PTI PRINT EMAIL
TRISHUL
Trishul test fired
BALASORE, DEC 8 (PTI)
India's most sophisticated short range surface-to-air missile 'Trishul' was test fired from the integrated test range (ITR) at Chandipur, 15 km from here, this afternoon, defence sources said.

The sleek missile was fired from a mobile launcher at about 4.15 pm.

It was targeted at a para-barrel dropped from a chopper, the sources said.

The solid fuel propelled missile has a triple battlefield role for the army, air force and navy. With a range of nine km, Trishul is part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP).

The missile has a length of three metres and diameter of 200 cm and flies at supersonic speed.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Well, I guess India topics are rather safe now. We do have to stay away from topics like Iraq and the Israeli occupation of Palestine, though. Those do get out of hand. As for the Indian missile program, well, they do have a good surface to air missile (Akash can present quite a threat to most PAF aircraft) and if the Trishul is successful, that too can be quite effective. The Indian Nag seems to be a decent fire and forget anti-tank missile (has the IA inducted yet?). The only problem that the Indians have seems to be developing ballistic missiles. According to missilethreat.com, many Indian ballistic missiles are either under development or they have been cancelled.
 

jatt

Junior Member
According the DRDO there is no ICBM program and the Agni 3 will be last large BM development for now. I assume they plan on ISRO doing slow yet inexpensive research in the field over the longterm goal. With the development of Agni 3 is a longer range missile even needed? I think not.
DRDO has thrown more interest in airdefence now. Some new missiles being worked on are KS-172 with Russia ofcourse (ultra longrange 300km!) , Sagrikia cruisemissile (old news), new stealth helecopter launched anti-ship missile (Dhurv, LCA), extended range Akash (easy to do 60km), longrange SAM with limited anti BM capability (range is greater than 100KM on the same line as S-300PMU and PAC-2/3), VLS Trishul.
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
More capable air defense has been a top government
priority here for several years. To meet the Army’s
future requirements, the DRDO diverted some funds from
its missile program in January 2003 to begin
developing its own air defense system capable of
tracking ballistic missiles.

The Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad, a
premier defense laboratory that produces the Agni and
Prithvi missile systems and is under the
administrative control of DRDO, has been developing a
system since early 2003 that would have a range of 100
kilometers.


A DRDO scientist said the previous National Democratic
Alliance government was so impressed with the RCI
proposal that $444.4 million was allotted in June 2003
to complete the indigenous air defense system by 2008.


Vijay Kumar Saraswat, RCI director, said Feb 10 that
the system RCI is working on will be superior to the
Patriot-2 and Russia’s S-300 PMU, and will be ready to
enter service by 2008. Saraswat claimed the system
will have a mobile launcher carrying three
surface-to-air, solid-fuel missiles, equipped with
directional warheads.

He said the unnamed system will begin flight trials in
mid-2006. RCI will carry out about 10 flights before
deploying it with the Indian defense forces.

The DRDO scientist said the indigenous air defense
system will have a mission control system that will
conduct target acquisition, classification and track
estimation, among other functions.

He said another major element is the active
phased-array radar system purchased from Israel.
Called Sword Fish, the system was purchased in early
2004 for $50 million and is undergoing trials at Hasan
in Karnataka state.

Once the air defense system is operational, the DRDO
scientist said, RCI will integrate it with other
defense systems via satellite links and a secure
digital data link that will enable it to track and
transmit data up to a range of 1,000 kilometers.
Apart from SAMs, a long-range Air Defence System was also being developed. Once deployed, the radars of such a system would have multiple target tracking capacity and could simultaneously track 200 aircraft up to a distance of 400 km.
Green Pine copy?
IMHO if India doesn't get the Arrow 2 don't even bother with anything else. The S-300PMU seems impressive but there is reason India wants the more expensive Arrow 2 and consider how important anti-missile defence is to India!
-----------------------------------------
Akash
It operates in conjunction with the Rajendra surveillance & engagement radar. This system will replace the SA-6 / Straight Flush in Indian service and is also expected to be integrated with the S-300V (SA-10 Grumble) low-to-high altitude SAM in an integrated air defence system to counter SRBM / IRBM threats along the Pakistani and Chinese borders.
The Akash could have limited ATBM capability as it is. The radar certianly seems capable.
The missile is based heavily on the SA-6 and is claimed that Rajendra is similar to the 30N6 Flap-Lid B engagement radar, used by the S-300 ATBM system.
Akash has a range of 27 km, with an effective ceiling of 15 km.
Pretty much capable of engaging every aircraft is PAF's inventory with that ceiling.
It is capable of detecting & destroying aircraft flying at tree-top height.
Could engage Babur...
Development is on to increase speed, maximum altitude and range to 60 km. A dual mode radar/infra-red seeker is also being developed as is a longer range version of the Rajendra radar, to give earlier warning and tracking of ballistic missile targets.
My claim.
Akash2.jpg

The range can certianly be increased.
the radar is capable of tracking 64 targets, engage 4 simultaneously and guide up to 12 missiles. The system is reportedly similar to the 30N6 (Flap-Lid B) engagement radar.
Rajendra.jpg

A longer range version is being developed. The Army intends to use the Rajendra radar in the artillery locating role as well.
Already done. The firefinder is already in service with the army.
IB-AkashConfiguration.jpg

IB-AkashOpConfig.jpg

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Trishul
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The Trishul (Trident) is a short range, quick reaction, all weather surface-to-air missile designed to counter a low-level attack
Proper counter to ground hugging missiles.
It has been flight tested in the sea-skimming role and also against moving targets.
Still testing in this role though.
India hopes that some of the technology from Trishul can be incorporated in other missile projects. The official cost of the Trishul program has been some Rs.3 billion
This was 5-3 years back as far as i can remember.
The Trishul missile had been intended to be a multi-service design. The Indian Air Force, which had intended to adopt the Trishul for an airfield-defence role, recently turned against the project. The Army has also stated that the Trishul was unlikely to meet its requirements for a replacement for the Russian-designed OSA-AKM (SA-8b Gecko) self-propelled SAM system. The Indian Navy had designed recent warships to include the Trishul as their armament, so the decision not to make the system operational is likely to require selection of an alternative system and modification of the warships that were to use the Trishul missile. This lead to an expansion of the Indian procurement of the Israeli-built Barak SAM system, of which seven systems were already ordered and another 10 systems have been planned for.
Judge it your self. It was said that Arjun, and Nag ATGM won't enter service but they did.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
I still find it quite hard to beleive that a ground hugging missile can be taken out by the Akash and Trishul when the Americans failed to hit those Seersuckers that struck the Kuwaiti mall even with the aid of AWACs, PAC-3, and Aegis. However, if the Akash has a radar based off the S-300, then it is quite a capable system. And since PAF doesn't have an anti-radiation capability, the SAMs will have almost no threat from PAF aircraft.
 

jatt

Junior Member
crazyinsane105 said:
I still find it quite hard to beleive that a ground hugging missile can be taken out by the Akash and Trishul when the Americans failed to hit those Seersuckers that struck the Kuwaiti mall even with the aid of AWACs, PAC-3, and Aegis. However, if the Akash has a radar based off the S-300, then it is quite a capable system. And since PAF doesn't have an anti-radiation capability, the SAMs will have almost no threat from PAF aircraft.
Errors. But you never hear about the success. Targating a mall is deferent form targeting a military compond.
 
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