Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Either you're just daft or try to lie, the C-17s are premium-grade military transport plane capable to transport MBT-class cargo, essential in bringing reinforcement fast in case the Sino-India or India-Pakistan borders heats up...unlikely for now but equally likely that another war between India and Pakistan flare up in the future as well, and very likely drag China into the mud hole.
Please make an effort to read previous posts.

Like I said earlier, India has no military operations half the globe away from its soil and won't have any for years to come. True, the C-17 and C-130J will serve the military in times of war, but most of the times they'll be doing search and rescue. Did you read the news article I posted earlier ?

From the Andaman islands near Indonesia to mountains of Ladakh and Kashmir, India has the most diverse landscape. Millions of its huge population does have to face cyclones, mountain slides and floods and it is these planes that serve, and not commercial airlines.

All talk of C-17s being bought to ferry Arjun tanks is also baseless. One C-17 can carry just 1 Arjun tank. Seriously, just imaging the number of to-and-fro flights 10 C-17s will have to make to transport a regiment of Arjuns ! Arjuns will mainly be transported by India's vast road and rail network.

And if you want me to be convinced that India holds no hostility against China, well...the day when India no longer provide safe haven for Tibetan separatists and deport those sorry lot back to China, then I'll buy it.
Have you read about the elite unit of Tibetans in the Indian Army, the Special Frontier Force ?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

delft

Brigadier
For many villages an An-32 is large enough or even too large. C-17 is too large for the largest village you can think of, whatever that village needs.
I found the wiki on the Special Frontier Force very interesting. The Dalai Lama's "government in exile" is presumably a relic of the close cooperation between India and the CIA in the '50's and '60's but is it in India's interest to allow that outfit to remain?
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
For many villages an An-32 is large enough or even too large. C-17 is too large for the largest village you can think of, whatever that village needs.

To just give an idea of the scale of operations and numbers involved :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I found the wiki on the Special Frontier Force very interesting. The Dalai Lama's "government in exile" is presumably a relic of the close cooperation between India and the CIA in the '50's and '60's but is it in India's interest to allow that outfit to remain?
It is indeed in India's interest. For, Tibet's separation from China means not only the resolution of its land disputes with China in its north and north-east, but also a China which is reduced in size. So there would be reduced economic competition.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It is indeed in India's interest. For, Tibet's separation from China means not only the resolution of its land disputes with China in its north and north-east, but also a China which is reduced in size. So there would be reduced economic competition.

Hoping Tibet would break away from China as a means of resolving India's boarder disputes is a nonsensical way to deal with the issue, and actively (or even passively) supporting any such separatist movement would be a disastrous strategy for India as China would have every right to regard such activities as acts of war and respond accordingly.

The Special Frontier Force is also a good idea ridiculously executed. There are reasons no other nation on earth have effectively full military outfits comprised almost entirely of foreigners from the same country/of the same ethnicity, and it is an especially bad idea to build an almost completely independent military force comprising of people who are fiercely hostile to one of your neighbours.

The Tibetans might work with India now, but they have their own agendas and India will never have their complete and undivided loyalty. If India decides one day it no longer wants to play host to the Dali Lama and his assorted follow-ons, it might find parts of it's own military fighting against them.

In addition, the risks that the SFF might drag India into an all out war with China, either deliberately or accidentally are extremely high. There have already been well documented instances where the SFF has gone rough and launched illegal operations into China without authorization, committing acts of war. If that happens, India will need to either disband and disarm the SFF (which may result in violence), or it will be branded as a state sponsor of terrorism and the aggressor in any war that ensues.

If the SFF is left as it is, it could easily be the cause of a terrible calamity.
 
Have you read about the elite unit of Tibetans in the Indian Army, the Special Frontier Force ?
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Also interesting that the SFF and the LTTE(Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) were both trained by Research and Analysis Wing of India, India's intelligence service. Wonder if these tactics are heritage from the British who actively recruited numerous Indian and Nepali divisions to fight their war.
 

delft

Brigadier
To just give an idea of the scale of operations and numbers involved :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



It is indeed in India's interest. For, Tibet's separation from China means not only the resolution of its land disputes with China in its north and north-east, but also a China which is reduced in size. So there would be reduced economic competition.
For such work within India a larger number of medium sized medium range transport aircraft will be more valuable than a smaller number of large long range aircraft, especially when India adds to the number of airfields available.

As for Tibet it was independent in the 17th century but was last incorporated into China in 1720, long before California became part of the US. It might be understandable that the Indian army continued the policy of its colonial predecessor to try to get as much of Tibet as possible and cooperate with the CIA to that purpose in the '50's and '60's and, when the CIA sponsored insurrection failed to accept the Dalai Lama and his "government in exile", but that policy should have been abandoned no later than 1972. The land disputes must be solved by diplomacy, as China has achieved with all its other neighbors, otherwise India might be reduced. The security of India, China and Pakistan is best served by finding a diplomatic solution to all these problems. It would also open the way for oil and gas pipe lines from Central Asia to India which too would be of much more value to India than the small amount of land it claims from its neighbors.
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Hoping Tibet would break away from China as a means of resolving India's boarder disputes is a nonsensical way to deal with the issue, and actively (or even passively) supporting any such separatist movement would be a disastrous strategy for India as China would have every right to regard such activities as acts of war and respond accordingly.
Actually, India has already executed such a strategy before and is not new to it.

The Indian Army overtly trained and armed the Mukti Bahini (Bengali : Freedom Wing), which was instrumental in liberating Bangladesh (then, East Pakistan) in the 1971 war with Pakistan. This guerilla outfit consisted of locals from East Pakistan, who were willing to take on the Pak army.

Incidentally, the SFF was instrumental in the Bangladesh war too. Many were awarded after it. So they do have accumulated experience in covert war tactics.

The Special Frontier Force is also a good idea ridiculously executed. There are reasons no other nation on earth have effectively full military outfits comprised almost entirely of foreigners from the same country/of the same ethnicity, and it is an especially bad idea to build an almost completely independent military force comprising of people who are fiercely hostile to one of your neighbours.
Like I said before, India has successfully executed such a strategy before vis-a-vis Bangladesh. The SFF is also not completely independent. It is under the Indian Intelligence.

The Tibetans might work with India now, but they have their own agendas and India will never have their complete and undivided loyalty. If India decides one day it no longer wants to play host to the Dali Lama and his assorted follow-ons, it might find parts of it's own military fighting against them.
The loyalty of Tibetans towards India is left to the future. But India shall always host His Holiness, the Dalai Lama for all time, because being the birthplace of Buddhism and having many of its holiest shrines, India considers its duty to protect and provide shelter to His Holiness and his followers.

Note that the Government of India officially regards His Holiness as an honoured guest of India. He and his followers are always welcome to this land.

In addition, the risks that the SFF might drag India into an all out war with China, either deliberately or accidentally are extremely high. There have already been well documented instances where the SFF has gone rough and launched illegal operations into China without authorization, committing acts of war. If that happens, India will need to either disband and disarm the SFF (which may result in violence), or it will be branded as a state sponsor of terrorism and the aggressor in any war that ensues.
There are no documented reports of the SFF contravening orders from the Indian establishment.

Also interesting that the SFF and the LTTE(Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam) were both trained by Research and Analysis Wing of India, India's intelligence service. Wonder if these tactics are heritage from the British who actively recruited numerous Indian and Nepali divisions to fight their war.
India Army continues to have vast Nepali regiments amongst its ranks, called Gorkhas
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

In fact, the Indian Army Chief is the ceremonial head of the Nepali Army and vice-versa :
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Now, as far as LTTE is concerned it had nothing to do with the IA but India's Intelligence Wing called RAW. They were trained and armed initially because a lot of Tamil refugees used to keep streaming in from Sri-Lanka to India's Tamil Nadu state, thereby causing local disbalance. So the armed training initially helped them handle the Sri-Lankan atrocities. But later, they got out of hand, and you can read further about the IPKF
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

delft

Brigadier
What was possible in 1971 vis-a-vis East Pakistan, violating the Charter of the United Nations, proved to be impossible vis-a-vis Sri Lanka and is orders of magnitude too weak against China. And accepting the Dalai Lama as honored guest need not extend to his "government in exile".
 
Last edited:

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Actually, India has already executed such a strategy before and is not new to it.

And the British used to rule India. Does that still apply today?

Copy pasting past strategies and applying them to future events without any consideration for the different circumstances is worse than just repetition.

The Indian Army overtly trained and armed the Mukti Bahini (Bengali : Freedom Wing), which was instrumental in liberating Bangladesh (then, East Pakistan) in the 1971 war with Pakistan. This guerilla outfit consisted of locals from East Pakistan, who were willing to take on the Pak army.

Funny you managed to miss the fundamental point I was making even though you yourself has stated it above - the last (and only) time India managed to cause another country to break in two led to war, which was my point exactly.

Not even a moron would think that China would just sit back and let Indian trained and equipped Tibetan paramilitaries wreak havoc in Tibet without reply.

In addition, East Pakistan only became modern day Bangladesh because of the 1971 war between India and Pakistan. Is India prepared to fight a war with China to try and annex Tibet? Who actually thinks India is remotely strong enough to do that even if it wanted to?

As things stand, and with the way things are projected to develop in the future, it is far more likely for China to engineer part of India to break away than for India to cause Tibet to break away from China. India is already having a terrible time fighting against Maoist rebels who have no outside support. Imagine how much worse that insurgence could be if China started supplying them with the latest in infantry weapons, encrypted communications gear, supplies and safe havens inside of China. Maybe even send in some special forces teams to train and support them. Then there are all the Kashmir anti-Indian groups...

If the gloves came off, even without going to all out war, China could cause massive trouble for India, by arming and supporting Indian domestic insurgents, and inflict far more damage than India ever could with such tactics.

Your 'strategy' is a blatant non-starter, and India's decision to organize the SFF as it has could easily backfire spectacularly. If Tibetan extremes become more overly violent, India might one day suddenly realize that all those 'refugee' camps having become training camps. If and when terrorist attacks are linked to those camps, India will be faced with a very difficult choice - clear and close down the camps, or risk international ire and Chinese retaliation.

If India chooses the lessor of two evils and closes the camps, the SFF could easily turn into India's Taliban, and turn on their former backers as the Taliban turned on the Americans.

Incidentally, the SFF was instrumental in the Bangladesh war too. Many were awarded after it. So they do have accumulated experience in covert war tactics.

Didn't you suggest that causing a part of a country with boarder disputes with India to break away would solve those boarder disputes for India? :rolleyes:

The loyalty of Tibetans towards India is left to the future. But India shall always host His Holiness, the Dalai Lama for all time, because being the birthplace of Buddhism and having many of its holiest shrines, India considers its duty to protect and provide shelter to His Holiness and his followers.

So what happens if/when his (or the next Dali Lama's) followers start resorting to terrorist tactics to try and gain Tibetan independence? Will India still provide sanctuary and shelter to them when doing so would mean all out war with China?

There are no documented reports of the SFF contravening orders from the Indian establishment.

Right, that is why the SFF is not allowed within 10km of the Chinese boarder without explicit orders. :rolleyes:

India Army continues to have vast Nepali regiments amongst its ranks, called Gorkhas

Which, with the exception of the Assman Regiments, have Indian officers, COs and line infantry integrated into them at all levels, which is akin to how the British organize their own Gorkha regiment.

To have entire commands comprised almost exclusively of foreign nationals/ethnicity is not a practice anyone else employs, for very good and obvious reasons.

In fact, the Indian Army Chief is the ceremonial head of the Nepali Army and vice-versa

And the British Queen is the ceremonial head of state of Australia. Would Australian military units obey orders issued by the Queen of England?

In the military, loyalty is of paramount importance. Not just under the current circumstances, but under any circumstance. There are no eternal friends or enemies in international relations, only interest. If India is not considering what might happen if and when it's national interest clashes with the interest of Tibetan religious fanatics, then India is being supremely short-sighted.
 

delft

Brigadier
IIRC the Nepalese government recently decided to end the recruitment of Nepali citizens by foreign armies in the country. I suppose it has or will in the near future also end the honorary connection of the Indian commander-in-chief with the Nepali army.

India would be a more important country in the world as a member of SCO and ally of China than as a satellite of the US.
 
Top