Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
source :shiphone of DFI



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Yes, the Nerpa (aka Chakra) was leased for ten years, but the Indians have an option for an additional ten years which they almost assuredly will take up. At the end of the twenty years, as I understand it, they will have essentially paid for the vessel.

I believe the second one will be leased under very much the same conditions and options, and the Indians need a second nuclear SSN so they can have one at sea at all time escorting their high value carriers.
Do you suppose it too will be an Akula class, or a newer sub?? and they absolutely need a nuke boat to hang with those carriers?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Do you suppose it too will be an Akula class, or a newer sub?? and they absolutely need a nuke boat to hang with those carriers?
They are most definitely talking about another Akula.

This will allow them some economy of scale, particularly in training and logistics. A different boat type would play havoc with that.

Ultimately India plans their own SSNs, so these two are a stop gap for them...thought it is likely that the Akulas will be better than their first SSN attempts.

At the same time, I have to give the Indians credit for establishing a plan and then moving with it to get to their own indigenous capability. In the end that will be absolute best for them.

As to the SSNs as escorts...yes. A nuke boat is needed to hang with the speed and endurance of their carriers. A D/E sub simply does not have the speed or the endurance.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
They are most definitely talking about another Akula.

This will allow them some economy of scale, particularly in training and logistics. A different boat type would play havoc with that.

Ultimately India plans their own SSNs, so these two are a stop gap for them...thought it is likely that the Akulas will be better than their first SSN attempts.

At the same time, I have to give the Indians credit for establishing a plan and then moving with it to get to their own indigenous capability. In the end that will be absolute best for them.

As to the SSNs as escorts...yes. A nuke boat is needed to hang with the speed and endurance of their carriers. A D/E sub simply does not have the speed or the endurance.

I hate it when the unknowing comment on our military situation, so I will preface this by saying this is a comment from an outsider, but it seems to me that the Indian Navy has their ducks in row when it comes to procurement??? Two Carriers, a nuclear sub, Mig 29Ks for their carriers, while the Air Force is having trouble dropping the hammer on a fighter, Rafael, MK-1, PAK-FA?? Its obvious that the Navy seems to Navigate that process much more successfully than the Air Force, shoot, our own Navy Navigates that process much more successfully than the Air Force???
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
...it seems to me that the Indian Navy has their ducks in row when it comes to procurement???

Two Carriers, a nuclear sub, Mig 29Ks for their carriers, while the Air Force is having trouble dropping the hammer on a fighter, Rafael, MK-1, PAK-FA?? Its obvious that the Navy seems to Navigate that process much more successfully than the Air Force???
Well, I think the plan itself is perhaps better...and the Indian relationship with the Russians tends to produce more results...in the long run.

And the "long run," should be emphasized.

I took the Indians and Russians a LONG TIME to produce the Vikramaditya (which is what the Mig-29Ks were for), and it was not at all delay or problem free...but they eventually got there.

The Mig-29Ks came along faster...and they were a substantial upgrade to the older Mig 29s. but it was based on a proven airframe and design. The Russians were able to produce them and get them into Indian hands fairly timely.

But the PAKFA has not been so clean.

The Kolkata DDGs also took a LONG TIME to finally get to sea...like ten years too long. but they are now getting there.

The Indians are working on their next carrier, the Vikrant. but it was "launched" late (delayed) very incomplete...heck, without even an island...and it too has taken a LONG TIME (seeing a pattern here?).

Anyhow, now that these projects are coming to fruition, the Indian Navy is indeed shaping up.

They are a "long way" from their own SSN...but two Russian Akulas will be a decent stop gap and India joins a rather exclusive and elite club of operating SSNs. The US, the UK, France, Russia and China are the only other members of the SSN club.
 

aksha

Captain
Well, I think the plan itself is perhaps better...and the Indian relationship with the Russians tends to produce more results...in the long run.

And the "long run," should be emphasized.

I took the Indians and Russians a LONG TIME to produce the Vikramaditya (which is what the Mig-29Ks were for), and it was not at all delay or problem free...but they eventually got there.

The Mig-29Ks came along faster...and they were a substantial upgrade to the older Mig 29s. but it was based on a proven airframe and design. The Russians were able to produce them and get them into Indian hands fairly timely.

But the PAKFA has not been so clean.

The Kolkata DDGs also took a LONG TIME to finally get to sea...like ten years too long. but they are now getting there.

The Indians are working on their next carrier, the Vikrant. but it was "launched" late (delayed) very incomplete...heck, without even an island...and it too has taken a LONG TIME (seeing a pattern here?).

Anyhow, now that these projects are coming to fruition, the Indian Navy is indeed shaping up.

They are a "long way" from their own SSN...but two Russian Akulas will be a decent stop gap and India joins a rather exclusive and elite club of operating SSNs. The US, the UK, France, Russia and China are the only other members of the SSN club.


as far is indegenisation is considred, the indian navy is said to have superior management.

an example is theLCA programme.


the vikrant, well its the first time they are building a carrier.
as for the alunching, you can blame the previous government.

the kolkata, the blame goes for the Barak 8.
but now they have 2 of them in service (1 officially and 1 unofficially),and anthher will go out next month for trials and the first of the follow on class will be launched next month.

and the Kolkata's are more complex ships than most think ,they have an intersting missile reloading mechanism.

the bramhoscorp. cheif said the turnaround time for reloading the bramhos is 2mins at sea.
brings back the speculation of the kolkatas having 64 barak 8's

i will post the link soon.


another 27 mig 29k's are being ordered,
posted the link in the previous page.
so thats 4 squardons.

the vikrant will get its propellors this year according to saurav jha of cnn ibn,who visited the shipyard.
but the realistic date of its commisioning is 2019.
 
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aksha

Captain
this is irritating, they want to put Russian thrust vectoring on GE engines,
talk about about putting fire and kerosene in the same glass.

saurav jha of CNN IBN says
Klimov has been brought in as a partner for developing thrust vectoring nozzles for future engines to be used in the AMCA program.

he has always been right about DRDO related news before.

besides he is not the only one who has been saying this.
Vijender K. Thakur., ex IAF pilot,squardon leador, jaguar ang HF24 Marut pilot has been saying this too
Thrust vectoring is likely to be conditional on Russian willingness to transfer technology.
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aksha

Captain
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The IAF is down to 34 squadrons against 42 authorised. This would dip to 30 squadrons by the end of this decade, as nine squadrons of MiG-21 and MiG-27s retire

With no movement on the contract for 126 Rafale fighters, with the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) far in the future, and the Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) being built in insignificant numbers, the
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(IAF) is making up numbers by upgrading older fighters, often at significant cost.

The
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is down to 34 squadrons, against 42 authorised. This would dip to 30 by the end of this decade, as nine squadrons of
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and MiG-27s retire, with only three Sukhoi-30MKI and two Tejas squadrons due for induction.

In the circumstances, the IAF is extending the life of two Mirage 2000 squadrons, three MiG-29 squadrons and six
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squadrons for 15-20 years. On Wednesday, French vendor, Thales, handed over the first two upgraded Mirage 2000-I fighters in Paris. Over the next 7-10 years,
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Ltd (HAL) will upgrade another 49 Mirage 2000s in Bengaluru for Rs 12,100 crore.

Meanwhile, 69 MiG-29 fighters are being upgraded for $964 million, an exercise the government says will be completed by 2016.

Now, a key IAF concern is to rejuvenate its fleet of 123 Jaguars. In Bengaluru last month, IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, highlighted the urgent need to put new engines on the Jaguar, a $2 billion (Rs 12,000 crore) procurement that the defence ministry has stalled for years.

The IAF bases two Jaguar squadrons each in Ambala, Jamnagar and Gorakhpur. Termed "deep penetration strike aircraft", the Jaguar is designed for low-level strikes against enemy ground targets: air bases, land forces and warships. Powerful engines are essential, since enemy radar would pick up the Jaguars' ingress into enemy territory, and scramble fighters to intercept them.

Said Raha, "[The Jaguar] is a very capable aircraft but it has some shortfalls in terms of engine power. We are also upgrading it by putting in an auto-pilot and some close combat missiles and an upgraded navigation system and weapon aiming systems."

The "re-engining programme" involves replacing the Jaguar's underpowered Rolls-Royce Adour 804/811 engines with newer, more powerful engines. Poised to bag this contract is US firm, Honeywell, whose F-125N engine generates 43.8 KiloNewtons (kN) of thrust, significantly higher than the 32.5 kN of the Jaguar's current engines.

The defence ministry, however, is reluctant because Honeywell is the only vendor in the fray. In response to an IAF tender in 2010, British company Rolls-Royce declined to quote, apparently because it had no suitable engine. Pratt & Whitney, the other big US engine-maker, was unwilling to transfer technology.

Ministry sources say Rolls-Royce muddied the water by lobbying for upgrading the Jaguar's existing engine, rather than fitting a new one. With HAL manufacturing the new Adour Mk 871 engine for the IAF's Hawk trainer, Rolls-Royce argued it could cheaply build an upgraded Adour engine for the Jaguar, with many common parts.

After dithering for two years over this proposal, the defence ministry issued a fresh tender in October 2012, to which Honeywell offered the F-125N engine, and remains the sole bidder. The MoD remains undecided.

On December 19, 2011, the government stated in Parliament that the Jaguar upgrade would be completed by December 2017. That is a far cry, with the contract still to be negotiated. Only, after that would Honeywell begin manufacturing the engines.

Sections in the IAF argue it is wasteful to fit a powerful, new engine on 30-year fighters, many of which have already flown 4,000 of the 6,000 hours specified as the Jaguar's service life. Others point out that fighters are routinely given service life extensions, after inspections of the air frame.

To be sure, HAL has accumulated a high degree of expertise on the Jaguar, having manufactured many, overhauled the entire fleet and developed world-class navigational-attack systems (termed DARIN 2 and DARIN 3) that allow pilots to fly blind to a target hundreds of kilometres away, and release their bombs precisely.

The Jaguar is also being equipped with lethal Textron CBU-105 "sensor fuzed weapons", which the IAF procured in 2010 through the US government. This weapon, usually delivered over enemy tank concentrations, breaks up into a large number of smart "bomblets", which guide themselves to the tanks and penetrate their turrets from above.
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