India incursion and Chinese standoff at Dolam, Bhutan

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Hendrik_2000, Aug 5, 2017.

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  1. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    I don't thik so if that is the case rotational deployment should be enough but adding fuel depot, underground munition storage, barrack, new apron, parking space for military vehicle all tell tale sign of permanent deployment. Add to that increase training and deployment of J10B, J11B the frontline fighter of PLAAF. If it for testing they don't need to deploy 1 or 2 regiments

    China upgrades airspace defense in west to counter threat from India: military specialist
    By Shan Jie Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2018/2/20 16:50:13
    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1089938.shtml
    [​IMG]
    A J-10 fighter jet attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Western Theater Command taxies on the runway during an aerial combat training exercise in Western China on Feb.13, 2018. Photo:eng.chinamil.com.cn


    [​IMG]
    A J-11 fighter jet attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Western Theater Command deploys a drogue parachute to slow itself after finishing an aerial combat training exercise in Western China on Feb. 13, 2018. Photo:eng.chinamil.com.cn

    China is upgrading its Western Theater Command in order to confront any threat from India, a Chinese military specialist said after photographs of a J-10 jet flying over the high-altitude plateau in western China were released by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) during the Spring Festival holiday.

    The pictures posted on the English version of the PLA website show a J-10 fighter jet and J-11 fighter jets conducting aerial combat training exercises in Western China on February 13, two days before Spring Festival.

    The jets are attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Western Theater Command, the post said.

    The Western Theater Command is mainly responsible for mountain warfare at the border area with India. It is significant for China to strengthen control of airspace over the mountainous region, Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

    "Strengthening the 3.5-generation fighter jets or even stationing more advanced fighters in the Western Theatre Command has been urgent for the PLA," Song said, adding that such upgrades have been usually first conducted in south and east theatre commands.

    Considering that India possesses 3rd-generation fighter jets, China's stationing of its 3.5-generation jets would be able to deal with any current threat from India, said Song. "With India importing new jets, China will continue strengthening its fighter jets in the Western Theatre Command," Song said.

    During this year's week-long Spring Festival holiday, the PLA has not stop training. The PLA website reported that the PLA Air Force conducted training at the foot of the Qilian Mountains in Northwest China's Gansu Province, and a navy aviation regiment was on patrol in Jiaodong Peninsula, East China's Shandong province.

    The PLA website also reported on Monday that the North China Sea Fleet of the PLA Navy on Saturday conducted training exercises in the Yellow Sea.

    During Spring Festival, real combat trainings have been included in patrol, such as submarine ambush, enemy warship attacks and mine clearing and laying, in preparation to face any emergency situation, an officer with the fleet said.
     
    #651 Hendrik_2000, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  2. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    Long article but basically what it said is China not just talk but they do the walking
    India promise to built for Nepal a police academy but years gone by nothing happened. China built it in 2 years complete with all the furnishing and equipment

    DRIVEN BY INDIA INTO CHINA’S ARMS, IS NEPAL THE NEW SRI LANKA?
    As a new government takes charge in Kathmandu, the geopolitics of the Himalayas may change, the same way it did in the Indian Ocean

    BY DEBASISH ROY CHOWDHURY
    http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopo.../driven-india-chinas-arms-nepal-new-sri-lanka
    25 FEB 2018

    [​IMG]
    President Xi Jinping and new Nepalese Prime Minister Khadga Prasad Sharma Oli. Photo: AFP
    MORE ON
    THIS STORY
    [​IMG]
    Nepal leader vows to revive Chinese dam project, open to review pact over Nepalese soldiers in India


    “This looks like China, doesn’t it?”

    Deputy Inspector General Mandip Shrestha has his chest puffed out as he gives a tour of Nepal Armed Police Force’s freshly minted training academy. A swanky sprawl complete with a helipad, swimming pool, football ground, shooting range, soundproof meeting rooms, giant auditoriums and elegant red brick buildings, the hilltop campus with a sweeping view of the Kathmandu Valley is not your regular government installation in poorly developed Nepal. Shrestha can be forgiven for his house pride.

    Nepal leader vows to revive Chinese dam project, open to review pact over Nepalese soldiers in India
    The campus was a US$350 million gift from China, which built it in two years and handed it over last year to the paramilitary force, which plays an important role in checking Tibetan refugees from entering Nepal. “Apart from the bricks and mortar, they brought everything from China. All the fittings, the furniture, everything,” says a visibly impressed Shrestha as he points to the overhead projector and the desks in one of the many classrooms. “This entire campus in just two years, imagine the level of efficiency.”

    [​IMG]The swanky new Nepal Armed Police Force’s academy, compliments of China. Photo: Handout

    Before shifting to the Nepalese Armed Police Force, which was set up in 2001, Shrestha started out in Nepal’s civilian police force in 1995. A different training academy was the buzz in Nepal those days. That year, Devendra Subedi, currently executive director of the National Police Academy, visited New Delhi as the youngest member of a police delegation from Nepal. “I attended the meeting where the Indians first mentioned they would build a new police academy for us. We were all super-excited. For years, that promised academy was the talk of Nepal’s police community.”

    Every successive batch would be told about this mega academy where they would soon relocate, leaving behind the cramped and dusty premises in Kathmandu. “Our seniors would tell us about this coming wonder, we would tell our boys, they would tell their boys. Today, no one talks about it. It’s a joke, a very old joke,” Subedi deadpans. “When I retire in a few years, everyone present at that meeting where it was first promised would be gone, and not a brick would have been laid.”

    As Maldives burns, lessons for China and India’s limited options
    When Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made his first trip to Nepal in 2014 soon after coming to power that year, he criticised the previous government for not delivering on the promises made to Nepal. He and his Nepali counterpart jointly unveiled a plaque of the police academy to flag off the project amid much fanfare. Then it went back right back into the freezer, and the joke was back on.

    The academy is among the long list of India’s unkept promises and poor project track record in Nepal, such as the India-funded road projects in southern Nepal or the high-profile hydropower project on the Mahakali river. “This is how India has destroyed its own credibility in Nepal,” says political commentator and writer Yubaraj Ghimire.

    Legacy issues such as these have added to the strains in India-Nepal relations in recent years as the small Himalayan country, tired of being pushed around by its giant neighbour, is increasingly pushing back. As a new government takes power in Kathmandu, this widening rift puts it on the cusp of a geopolitical transformation as Nepal seeks a hedge in China to counterbalance India’s traditional dominance. Beijing, itself looking to tighten its toehold in a strategically important country bordering Tibet as its own relations with New Delhi spiral downwards, is equally happy to step in.

    [​IMG]A graduate of the academy in action during vote counting in December. Photo: AFP
     
  3. BhookhaBhediya
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    BhookhaBhediya New Member
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    ^^In two years, the file would have moved from external affairs to ministry of finance in India if Indian mandarins are efficient
     
  4. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    I don't know man our good colonel here is seeing devil everywhere It is just trying to plug a hole in a leaky river dam you plugged one it leak somewhere else. It is hopeless to get excited might as well live with it and be done. It is china's territory after all
    China quietly & cleverly finds a new route to S. Doklam, 7 months after India stopped it
    COL. VINAYAK BHAT (RETD) 19 March, 2018
    https://theprint.in/security/china-...doklam-7-months-after-india-stopped-it/43070/[​IMG]
    Illustration by Sidhhant Gupta
    New alignment is 5 km away from Indian posts, making it difficult for India to do anything about it. The new road will open up South Doklam to Chinese troops.

    New Delhi: China has worked through the winter to bypass India’s aggressive blockade at Doklam, making a new road that can give its troops access to the southern part of the plateau – a move that has serious strategic implications for New Delhi.

    The Doklam crisis was sparked in June last year after Indian troops crossed over to stop the construction of a road that would enable the Chinese military to move vehicles to South Doklam, thus giving it easy access to the Jampheri ridge that overlooks the strategic Siliguri corridor.

    After a tense standoff that saw both sides moving heavy weaponry, including tanks and missile units to forward areas, India and China decided to pull back troops from the point of contention in late August, with the understanding that status quo had been achieved.

    [​IMG]
    Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
    However, latest satellite imagery from the area suggests that while road construction at the point of contention has stopped, China has been working through the winter to create an alternate route that will give it access to the southern part of the plateau.

    Unlike the June standoff, where Indian troops had to climb down about 100 meters from their posts to block construction, the new Chinese alignment is deep into Bhutanese territory and over 4 km away from the Indian border, leaving narrow choices for an intervention.

    As reported by ThePrint and flagged by Army chief Gen. Bipin Rawat last year, China has permanently occupied North Doklam, constructing new posts, helipads and fortifications, even as the standoff continued.

    [​IMG]
    Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
    The alternate access to South Doklam will present a fresh challenge to the Indian and Bhutanese sides, which may not be comfortable with the access and claim that it gives to China over the disputed area.

    “If the Chinese build a road going south towards Elephant Lake and reach the Jampheri ridge, it will be a major dilemma for India. Last year, we had to move just about 100 metres into the territory claimed by China and block its road construction towards the Bhutanese post on the Jampheri ridge,” said Manoj Joshi, distinguished fellow at the Observer Research Institute (ORF).

    Joshi, who wrote a detailed paper on the Doklam standoff last year, said significant resources would be needed to counter this new approach by the Chinese.

    “But to block their access along a road which may be 4-5 kilometres to the east of Doka La would require a significant military action. India has never claimed that territory, but even if Bhutan asks India to intervene on its behalf, it could be a tough call,” he said.

    Here is a detailed look at the new Chinese approach.

    Unabated construction
    [​IMG]
    Vinayak Bhat/ThePrint
    Latest satellite images show that China has been active in road construction through the winters on reverse slopes in Doklam – which are not directly under observation by the opposing forces.

    The fact that the months of January and February haven’t been as cold as usual has helped the People’s Liberation Army’s plan.

    Images show that in January, China constructed approximately a kilometre of road. However, in February, almost 5 km have been constructed southwards from a point where the Chinese have constructed three new helipads. The road is not yet black-topped.

    New post
    Images show that one particular area has been levelled flat by Chinese construction units. The area levelled is approximately 6,500 sq m. It is likely to be used for some kind of barracks construction, or may be used as parking area.

    Tunnelling
    The Chinese PLA is very good at camouflage and hiding troop movement. The PLA uses tunnelling for this purpose. Small tunnels are constructed to hide equipment. Tents are also pitched partially below ground so that only roof of the tent is visible.

    The movement of troops is conducted on the reverse slope only to avoid detection. This could have made it appear that troop strength in the area has been reduced.

    [​IMG]
    Stand off area as of 10 December, 2017 | Digital Globe, Vinayak Bhat
    Intention
    The construction seems to be targeted at providing access to the ridge connecting Mt Gipmochi with Mt Gyamochen. The ridge line is a possible claim line, although the real claims of China have not been made public till date.

    With the construction being 4 km away from Indian posts, there are few options available. One possibility is to occupy the ridge between Mt Gipmochi to Mt Gyamochen at the earliest, but that would require an invitation or request for assistance from the Bhutanese side.
     
  5. sanblvd
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    sanblvd Junior Member
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    Imagine that, Chinese building stuff on Chinese territory and other country are upset... what a exciting time we live in!!
     
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  6. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    Unlike some countries that shall go unnamed, China doesn’t do empty posturing.

    India backed down previously because their intelligence (actively aided by the Chinese media) were showing massive PLA mobilisation and re-deployment for significant military conflict.

    While it’s forces enjoyed some limited geographical advantage in the specific area of the standoff, and would have been well placed to win an infantry only shooting match, the PLA wasn’t going to play to their advantage, and was instead preparing for a broad front comprehensive assault. In the face of the overwhelming dominance the PLA would enjoy across the board, the Indians beat a hasty retreat and tried to pass that off as the Chinese not sticking to the agreement to save face.

    The Chinese won the last round due in no small part to their superior infrastructure that massively eased the logistical challenge of rapid large scale cross country force deployment within China.

    This new road is a continuation of that winning strategy aimed to comprehensively erasing India’s local geographical advantage.

    Once complete, this new road will allow the PLA to rapidly move heavy weapons like artillery and even tanks right up to the ridge line overlooking the halted roadworks.

    Thus, when China restarts work the on original road, if the Indians try the same trick and dare to enter Chinese territory again, they could rapidly find themselves literally starring down the barrel of PLA tanks and have their original positions covered by PLA heavy artillery, that can set up as close as 4km away and shielded by the ridgeline from direct attack.

    Expect the PLA to be far less restrained in their response. As they could be quite happy to fight and comprehsively win a small scale firefight without needed to automatically escalate the conflict to the scale of a general offensive.

    They will do all the logistics prep work of gearing up for such a massive offensive, but they will probably leave it up to the Indians to initiate escalations. Up to point of course.

    If the Indians refuse to take the hint after a few of their escalations gets thoroughly defeated, the PLA may well conclude a lesson on the same scale as 62 is required again.

    The point is that while India might have initially surprised China with the sheer naked brazenness of their transgression, they would be well advices to leave the region well alone going forwards. Because the PLA has taken note of its previous tiny disadvantage in the region and is in the process of thoroughly reversing that standing.

    When it is good and ready, the PLA will push back in Doklam to make a point.

    The bigger the fuss India makes over this push back, the worse the outcome.

    To illustrate.
    If India does nothing when China restarts the original road works, its a small embarrassment.

    If India sends troops into Chinese territory again to interfere with the works, they PLA will be doing more than holding its ground like last time. They will be actively pushing back to evict the Indian troops from Chinese soil.

    If the Indian troops use use to resist, the PLA will use greater force to neutralise them.

    If the Indian positions start engaging, they will get turned into craters pretty much immediately by Chinese tanks and artillery.

    If India deploys combat aircraft, those will get engaged by SAMS and PLAAF fighters, and those fighter home bases and probably expect a thorough pasting from PLAMF cruise and ballistic missiles.

    So on and so forth.

    China enjoys absolute escalation advantage every step of the way, so the more India escalates it, the worse it will be for them.

    Thus the only way India doesn’t loose and loose badly is if it takes the small loss of the road being built and never mentions Doklam again.
     
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  7. mr.bean
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    mr.bean Junior Member

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    yup the Yindu drama queen.
     
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  8. Rustom
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    Rustom Just Hatched
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    Too much assumptions you are making on one of powerful armed forces in Asia Chinese single child army faces. Question for you, how much stomach PLA has to take causalities? it hasn't fought land, air and sea wars in decades. You bet its not going to end well for china either.
     
  9. SinoSoldier
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    SinoSoldier Colonel

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    As far as we know the Chinese are still working some 30+ infrastructure projects on this area including at least two new roads, backed up by an increase (not decrease) in deployment of military assets to the region, some of which are on a permanent basis. No matter how the media of either side tries to spin things, the entire standoff, and India's response to it, has spurred more (rather than less) of a Chinese presence.
     
    #659 SinoSoldier, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  10. Deino
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    Deino Brigadier
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    Guys ... the Taiwan issue in the Type 002 carrier thread has just been cleaned and now some are looking for another playground?? :mad:

    That will NOT be tolerated!

    Therefore: STOP with any name-calling, calling others fan-boys or whatever.... no political discussion !

    PERIOD ... and no reply allowed.


    Deino
     
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