Impact of China's carrier race on South Korean Navy?

planeman · Nov 5, 2006

South Korea is widely known to be aiming towards an aircraft carrier force, presumably to counterbalance China's and potentially Japan's*

They have already launched a large through-deck LPD called Dokdo:

Stats on the airwing differ. From Wikipedia:

Dokdo class Amphibious Ship
Ship launched: July 12, 2005
Ship displacement: 14,000 tons (empty) / 18,800 tons (full)
Length: 199 m
Beam: 31 m
Draught: 6.6 m
Speed: 18 knots cruising
Ship complement: 300 crew members, 720 marines
Ship armament: Goalkeeper CIWS, RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile
Aircraft: Max 10 helicopters

From

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Designation: LHP
Length: 655 ft
Width: 105 ft
Beam: 105 ft
Displacement: 18,000 tons
Propulsion: 4 16PC2.5 STC Diesels, 2 shafts
Speed: 22 knots
Crew: 450
Troops: 700
Airwing: 15 Rotary, vtol
Armament:
- 2 X 21 RAM SAM
- 2 X 30mm Gatekeeper CIWS
Elevators: 2
Ships in class: 1

The big question is, are the elevators, flightdeck and hanger capable of operationally deploying JSF?

*Japan is talking about dropping its "traditional" non-interventionist military stance and already have a small carrier/LPD

Finn McCool · Nov 5, 2006

I think that China's carrier will have the same effect on carrier ues throughout Asia as North Korea's bomb may have on nuclear thechnology. That is that it will make it a necessity. Carrier proliferation is increasing across Asia. India is upgrading its carrier force with the Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) expected to come online around the same time as the Varyag and with two more indigenous carriers to come into service at a later date. Then we have the Dokdo (interesting name

) and Japan's DDH. However an arms race between Japan and South Korea would probably make the US a lot less willing to provide the weapons that both sides would need (for example South Korea could build a carrier but it would get any JSFs.)

What about Taiwan? Any prosepects for an indigenous LPD type ship there?

Since Taiwan is probably not going to be sending its forces overseas that is doubtful, but it would be useful for ASW purposes, to provide more air cover for the ROCN and as a reply to the Varyag.

adeptitus · Nov 5, 2006

The Koreans had planned their future navy (KDX, LPX) long before PLAN carrier was a concern. The LPX will be the center of their rapid reaction force strategy, as well as thumping their nose at the Japanese navy. I mean, geez, the name itself (Dokdo) should be a bluntly obvious indication of what the Koreans had in mind.

Imagine if the PLAN commission a new carrier and named it Dao Yu Tai, it's basically to the same effect. Taiwan will not be able to afford an expensive navy in the future, as its government is slowly turning into a welfare state at the expense of its own security.

piechap · Nov 5, 2006

Our friends and not so friendly far eastern neighbours may be saved the time and expense of designing, building and commisioning small aircraft carriers. Do not forget that the Royal Navy will be selling off Invincible and eventually Illustrious at some point inthe next few years to some so called friendly emerging blue water navy or even to "A casino owner in Macau"?.

bd popeye · Nov 5, 2006

Planeman wants to know;

The big question is, are the elevators, flightdeck and hanger capable of operationally deploying JSF?

Ahemmm..we already had a discussion about this ship that was started by yours truely in the old forum.

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I'm pretty sure the elevators and hangar could store a JSF. But I don't know if the flight deck is long enough without a ski ramp to launch a JSF. We shall have to wait and see how S.Korea outfits this ship.

Piechap sez;

Do not forget that the Royal Navy will be selling off Invincible and eventually Illustrious at some point inthe next few years to some so called friendly emerging blue water navy or even to "A casino owner in Macau"?.
1 Hour Ago 03:02 PM

We discussed that to in the old forum. I think the Invincible will be sold in 2010. But to what country who knows? Probally Austraila or India.

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planeman · Nov 5, 2006

Well, the STOVL version the JSF has a wing span of 35ft and no wing-folding. It is 50.5ft long.

The Dokdo is 105ft wide and 655ft long. There are two elevators which are at most 45ft wide - there is a picture somewhere of an HH-60 on one of the elevators and if I remember rightly it looked a tight fit - will try to track the photo down.

Rumours are that the aircraft are carried in a section of the vehicle deck rather than a dedicated hanger deck.

Interesting pic:

bd popeye · Nov 5, 2006

Rumours are that the aircraft are carried in a section of the vehicle deck rather than a dedicated hanger deck.

Honestly that does not sound right. Having visited aboard the USS Belleau Wood LHA-3 back in 2001 I can tell you that those vehicle storage spaces are large but are acessed by ramps only. And moving aircraft at sea up and down ramps would not be an easy task. Probally the hangar and vehicle storage are shared...I will do some research....

15 minutes later..
I found this on Global security;

The hull consists of four decks, this highest of which is the 1st deck [the flight deck], with the bridge superstructure. The flight deck can accomodated five UH-60 helicopters simultaneously. When the budget situation is improved, there is the possibilty that the NH-90 or the E101 Merlin will be adopted. An airplane hanger can be added for the UH-60 transportation helicopter and the AH-1 attack helicopter. An airplane shed spanning the lower deck is planned with multilayer structure and 2 formation elevator and 1 cadence elevator.

If it were equipped with a ski jump board module, 15-17 meters in length, it could operate short-range and vertical landing/take-off aircraft such as the Harrier or F-35B. Ships of this type are sometimes called a semi-aircraft carrier. However, Korean military authorities have made it clear that they have no plan to convert the LPX into such a semi-aircraft carrier. However, its flight deck is coated with special Urethane to resist heat generated from aircraft.

The 2nd deck is composed with the rooms of the dwelling sector, the command post and utility system of the crew. It will be able to accommodate a landing party with a strength 700 persons.

The 3rd deck includes the well-dock for loading the 2 LCACs. It is able to load 70 tanks or 200 truck, but normally the load is 10 helicopters and 2 tank companies, along with their support equipment. While being entirely mechanized, it will be able to accommodate 1 battalion strength and the equipment and armament.

Some of that does not make any sense to me. How can you add an aircraft hangar? Something is lost in the translation. From reading that I think that the vehicle storage area and the hangar the same.

Don't be surprised to see a ski ramp later...

Planeman please post any more info you may have.

Moderators note. I may move this thread to Worlds Armed Forces threads depending on how the discussion proceeds

bd popeye moderator

AssassinsMace · Nov 5, 2006

I don't really think China is concerned about South Korea's military. You don't hear them protest anything militarily the South Koreans do like they do with Taiwan. And the South Koreans seem to be doing a lot lately in regard to their military. It's also not because the Chinese look down at South Korea's military either. They don't. And because of those things, I don't see the South Korean military focused on China. It's more about North Korea. It's more about the South Koreans don't believe they can count on the US for protection. And off that note, it's about the distrust of Japan and if it came down to it, the US would side with Japan more than South Korea in any sort of serious difficulty between the two countries.

Gollevainen · Nov 6, 2006

Some of that does not make any sense to me. How can you add an aircraft hangar? Something is lost in the translation. From reading that I think that the vehicle storage area and the hangar the same.

Don't you guys remeber? We discussed this earlier, the LPX has very small hangar in the same level as the vehicle deck, that can accomodate 4 helicopters. If there would have been bigger hangar, there would have to be one deck added and making the ship look akward, just like the French Mistral or USN wasp and tarawas...

...the ship isen't an aircraft carrier, only resambles one like the Japanese Ooshumi

piechap · Nov 6, 2006

Sorry put thoughts down without checking out previous discussions.

Impact of China's carrier race on South Korean Navy?

planeman

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Finn McCool

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adeptitus

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piechap

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bd popeye

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planeman

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bd popeye

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AssassinsMace

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Gollevainen

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piechap

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