Hong-Kong Protests

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Pika, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    23,511
    Likes Received:
    27,609
    I think the single most important country for China is Russia
     
  2. jimmyjames30x30
    Offline

    jimmyjames30x30 Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    270
    This is where you are wrong, because you can't see the bigger picture. First of all, even though I used the term "weak and ineffectual", these two words themselves are too vague and generalized. Ukraine, Hong Kong and Libya could all be viewed as having a "weak and ineffectual" government. But they are totally different. Hong Kong government is NOT the same as Ukrainian and Libyan governments.

    Ukrainian and Libyan governments are structurally weak, they are plagued by corruption, incompetency and they lack the institutional capabilities to contend with "social engineering warfare" you've mentioned earlier.

    Hong Kong government and institution itself is not weak. They are actually extremely strong and effective. The problem with Hong Kong is their inherent problem with their separation of power.
    Because the uniqueness of Hong Kong's history and the 1C2S system, HK's executive, legislative and judicial power are divided along racial/ethnic identity lines. This gives it a fatal flaw in a social environment when identity politics and populism are on a rise.

    HK wants to be a western democratic society. However, a western democratic society can only be stable when its governmental power is not divided along racial/ethnic lines.

    Imagine the US, with a right-wing white house, a far left dominated parliament, and a supreme court where most of the Judges are Mexicans and Venezuelans who don't have US citizenship.
     
  3. enroger
    Offline

    enroger New Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    88
    The thing is that if everyone is rational and think logically about their interest and their communities interest, then there'd be no such thing as propaganda. Propaganda exists because most people are not rational. Most people are impressionable, emotional and easily influenced, it is extremely easy to romanticize ideology of democracy, however it is extremely difficult to educate people about the intricacy of economy and development.
    Therefore you find most of the rioters being from the younger population, they are an extremely emotional and impressionable bunch. China haven't learnt to play this game, while the west is expert at this.
     
    N00813 likes this.
  4. AssassinsMace
    Offline

    AssassinsMace Brigadier

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    7,937
    Likes Received:
    9,597
    #1794 AssassinsMace, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  5. manqiangrexue
    Offline

    manqiangrexue Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,543
    Likes Received:
    8,403
    Definitely, but we are not talking about that. Enroger and I are talking about China's ability to win hearts worldwide rather than which allies are most strategically important. Russia's kinda easy since its interests are just too aligned with China's. Enroger's worried that China cannot win the hearts of the people in the world while American propaganda can. Check out the world poll I added into the last post to really drive home my point.
     
    PanAsian, N00813 and Equation like this.
  6. jimmyjames30x30
    Offline

    jimmyjames30x30 Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    270
    The single most important ally for China is certainly Russia. This alliance will decide the fate of the entire world.
    If this alliance falters, WW3 will happen, and it will be the same as WW1. China, Russia and Europe will go to war with each other, in the end they will all lose. They will all be reduced to rubble and balkanized. The US will emerge as the absolute ruler of the world.
     
  7. nugroho
    Offline

    nugroho Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    155
    That is what CIA wants to see, PLA with full power march to HK and kill the protestors, afterthat EU and USA will be united to contain and sanction China. Hongkongers died , China is sanctioned with very little effort from intelligence agency, such a beautiful plot .
    But now, after pouring so much money and effort, China is relatively silence and a lot of Hongkonger began to see this useless movement ( their number down from "million" to "thousands", and they are frustated ).
    I can't predict what will China do, but I believe Chinese was the ones to understand Suntzu' Art of War best.
     
    bluewater2012 and N00813 like this.
  8. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    23,511
    Likes Received:
    27,609
    should the WW3 happen according to your scenario, it'd be interesting to see who'd be the next post-WW1 Germany if you know what I mean (one of the WW1 losers who later caused WW2 -- would be WW4 then)
     
  9. enroger
    Offline

    enroger New Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    88
    I don't know where you get this idea of racial/ethnic line, Hong Kong is predominantly han chinese. If you mean some HKer's might identify themselves more as British then yes I tend to agree.
    A more underlying structural problem is with the economy, Hong Kong is stagnant, fundamental problem is the high property prices. The funny thing is if people were rational and use the same amount of fervent to protest about real social-economical issue then we might get somewhere, this is something the HK government and CCP is willing to work on.
     
    PanAsian and N00813 like this.
  10. jimmyjames30x30
    Offline

    jimmyjames30x30 Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2019
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    270
    That's not true either. Because there are a lot of ways the PAP could intervene in Hong Kong. They could simply function as reinforcements to the HK police. The whole "marching into HK" is just a mental picture. The PAP has much much more high tech toys than the HK police to disperse the crowd without a Tiananmen style "tank entry".
     
    PanAsian and Shaolian like this.
Loading...

Share This Page