Hong-Kong Protests

tidalwave said:

Beijing already adopted the policy of having Shanghai and shenzhen replacing Hongkong, so letting Hongkong rot by itself.

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Nutrient said:

No need for Beijing's forceful intervention: the rioters themselves are doing an excellent job of outraging most of Hong Kong's population. At some point even the pro-rioter judges will be forced to start handing out heavy sentences to the violent protesters. Then the violence will subside, and Beijing can start improving Hong Kong.

I don't think you were entirely accurate earlier when you compared the current riots to the Cultural Revolution, remarking that the Hong Kong scuffles will not die down by themselves (as the CR lasted ten years and had to be stopped forcefully). One reason the CR lasted was because it had strong support from the rural people, who were the overwhelming majority (like 80% of the mainland population at the time). In contrast, I doubt the Hong Kong thugs have much support. And each time they beat another peaceful citizen or trash another public facility they lose more support. Eventually, the people and the politics will change.

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KYli said:

Understandably, grievances don't excuse the violence and destruction caused by these people. But it doesn't mean we don't need to understand how the oppositions, traitors, and foreign agents incite fears, prejudice, hates, and ignorance through grievances.

The root causes of many of today's problem can be traced back to the colonial years especially at the very end of the colonial rule. After the failed attempt to persuade the Chinese government to delay the handover by British and the failed attempt by Pao Yue Kong(with other HK business tycoons) to set up a plan to pay the central government $10 billion HKD to lease Hong Kong for 10 years, the British government and the HK business tycoons colluded to enrich themselves before the handover. The results are the following:

1. HK has become the world most expensive housing market with a price of $2090 per sq ft and one of the most expensive rental market with an average monthly rent of $2700. The average living space of each HK resident is 170 sq ft compare with 270 sq ft in Singapore. 27% of the HK government revenue was from land sales.

The waiting list for public rental housing around the handover was 6 1/2 years. Hong Kong Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa has attempted to resolve this through building 85000 flats per year but was forced to step down but his plan did bear fruit by lowing the waiting time for public rental housing to less than 2 years between 2005 and 2009. After Tung was forced to step down, Chief executive Donald Tsang dismantled and scaled back all housing projects and Hong Kong ended up to become the world most expensive housing market.

From what I see here is that initially the central government did understand housing is a major issue and grievance for low income families but somehow they let Chief executive Tsang and oppositions usurped power. Donald Tsang is on business tycoons payroll so nothing was done to alleviate the housing prices.

2. British dissolved the powerful "Special Branch" in 1995 and amended many local laws to weaken both the government and police force. Also British passed many laws before handover to strengthen the media, civil rights, and political freedom. I don't think the central government and HK government realized how weak they have become until occupy central and recent riots. The end result is that nobody fears the government or HKPF anymore.

3. British has ensured that the judicial branch would be seated by foreign judges from British, Australia or other common laws nations by preaching judicial independent.

4. Hong Kong has followed small government, laissez-faire policies for decades, limiting government intervention in business. That created a lot of problems such as the medical council. education and the HK Journalists Association. These self-regulatory bodies have become a major problem.

For example, the HK Journalists Association was the formal body to register journalists and issue press credentials. Since the HK Journalists Association is controlled by oppositions, they turned a blinded eye to the fake press credentials. In a normal circumstance, the HK government should revoke the HK Journalists Association's ability to issue press credentials but nothing is done.

Another example, Hong Kong has a shortage of medical doctors and nurses but due to the fact that the medical council is self regulated. Hong Kong doesn't allowed any foreign doctors or nurses to practice in HK. In addition, any medical malpractice is investigated and ruled by the medical council so pretty much doctors or nurses wouldn't get punished even they are at fault.

There is also the HK educational system. It pretty much is also self-regulated. Nothing is done to prevent teachers from teaching anti-China propaganda.

All I want to say is that the HK government and pro-Beijing legislators are weak and pathetic. They have allowed the oppositions to usurp powers from them. They never dared to confront hard issues and make necessary changes in education, media and judicial. They have gotten too cozy with the business tycoons. Whatever temporary peace they got with the rioters would not last til they act decisively.

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Dolcevita said:

Well housing prices will certainly be affected by the current unrest as tourism wanes, jobs are lost, and as investors turn cautious. Not the ideal scenario but the result will be the same.

On reforming law enforcement and corrupt the judiciary, education, media and healthcare system, It's really up to citizen to elect tough-minded legislators willing to reform the dysfunctional system forced on Hong Kong.

Nonetheless, none of what you listed are excuse for the violence and hate.
It has nothing to do with liberation, freedom or the escapegoating of China and CCP.
The protest only shows how HK became a breeding ground for hate and inhumanity.

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KYli said:

It is the job of the HK government(Carrie Lam) to ensure that the judiciary, education, and media in HK wouldn't become a breeding ground for anti-China propaganda. Looking the other way is not an option. Carrie Lam and her administration don't need the legislature branch to stare down the judiciary, education, and media. Carrie Lam has the power to do so by herself. The problem is Carrie Lam doesn't have the courage to enforce the laws and act like a true leader.

If reason and common sense exist in these protestors and their supporters' mind, then we wouldn't be here to discuss this, would we. We are talking about a color revolution like the Arab Spring. A revolution that is sponsored by Taiwanese and the US government. A revolution that is supported and energized by the oppositions. A opposition that constantly getting 55% percentage of the votes. Don't tell me these rioters don't have popular support. I am from HK. I have friends and families in HK. And I am telling you that these rioters do have popular support. It is just that we don't know to what extent their supporters are willing to tolerate and turn a blind eye on violence, hatred, and anarchy. I know that their core supporters would support them no matter what but there is a hope that the not core supporters might abandon them if they become a nuisance.

I do hear you and agree with you that there is no justification and excuse for these violent protests. But we have common sense, it doesn't mean these protestors and their supporters have common sense and willing to listen to reason. Looking at Golden, LIHKG, FB and IS, these rioters and their supporters are willing to justify any wrongdoings and attempt to demonized the HKFP in anyway. And international especially HK and western media are glorifying their acts. So we are not talking right or wrong here. We are talking about how to end this and how to prevent this from happening again.

Right or wrong matters to us but not to them. That's why I am saying these rioters are a lost cause. Their supporters might not be coming out as they used to be but it doesn't mean these supporters don't support the rioters anymore. In the end of the day, when you can't reason or talk to these people, the only option left is deterrence. Using the Emergency Law or whatever available tools to end these violent protests and hold these rioters accountable to their acts. Then we need to prevent by proactively resolving many social issues such as housing, inequality and healthcare. At the same time, we need to prevent the media and the public schools from brainwashing future generations of kids by reforming the educational and media system in HK.

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Dolcevita said:

The journalist with the "Press" hat is defending the vandalism and destruction of public property with the young lady. Totally demented mentality to argue that they can do whatever they want since it is public property. When the young lady tried to explain that it belongs to everyone and not acceptable. The answer is "So What" before they started to shoo her off.

This young American lady is more sensible than the whole US government,

In this case, the press are the rioter and they are just part of Joseph Goebbels school of journalism. “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”

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KIENCHIN said:

Put him in your ignore list, he is not worth anyone’s time.

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Gatekeeper said:

Ofcom investigates CGTN over coverage of Hong Kong protest

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Lol, British government apparatus to investigate China's CGTN for BIAS reporting on Hong Kong! Lol.

They should start with the British mouthpiece, the BBC!

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