Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

there's a lot of reasons and not just business. societal issues such as high housing and all those are a huge /main source of anger we are experiencing. I will say that part is the biggest part

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I'm really pessimistic that democracy will solve the problem of high costs of housing....

Singapore, being equally small and equally densely populated, has a house ownership rate of about 90%, one of the highest in the world. And Singapore achieved it under an authoritarian government.

As far as I see it, the more democratic a country/place is, the more say money will have.

Who has the money in HK? Real-estate tycoons.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

I'm really pessimistic that democracy will solve the problem of high costs of housing....

Singapore, being equally small and equally densely populated, has a house ownership rate of about 90%, one of the highest in the world. And Singapore achieved an authoritarian government.

As far as I see it, the more democratic a country/place is, the more say money will have.

Who has the money in HK? Real-estate tycoons.

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im very pessimistic too. trust me, we are all beating dead with our hopes, but we are still fighting because we have literally nothing to lose now. it's also our dignity. I dunno if you guys understand how much it means to us, but if you guys think we think that's a silver bullet or don't know what we are getting ourselves into then you're wrong. also shows how much you guys don't understand our situation yet somehow making these judgments

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

there's a lot of reasons and not just business. societal issues such as high housing and all those are a huge /main source of anger we are experiencing. I will say that part is the biggest part

Click to expand...

Those are not things democracy or market forces will be able to fix either, that's why it feels very much like most of the protestors have been conditioned into thinking democracy as the panacea of all their ills and problems, when in actual fact, democracy will almost certainly make those social problems worse.

And as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.

The main reason property prices are so high in HK is because of its importance as a trading and financial hub specialising in giving western firms access to the Chinese market.

If the Chinese leadership decides that HK is too unreliable/troublesome to continue to play such an important role, they will build up other Chinese cities as back ups and eventual replacements.

Shanghai is desperate to take on that role, and if sufficiently displeased, Beijing will let them have it. If they are smart, they will give you full democracy as you demand while they are at it, and make HK a new kind of example for the rest of China and the world.

Fortunately for HK, Beijing isn't yet ready to sacrifice the city to make a point. But there will come a point at which the balance will shift.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

plawolf said:

Those are not things democracy or market forces will be able to fix either, that's why it feels very much like most of the protestors have been conditioned into thinking democracy as the panacea of all their ills and problems, when in actual fact, democracy will almost certainly make those social problems worse.

And as the saying goes, be careful what you wish for.

The main reason property prices are so high in HK is because of its importance as a trading and financial hub specialising in giving western firms access to the Chinese market.

If the Chinese leadership decides that HK is too unreliable/troublesome to continue to play such an important role, they will build up other Chinese cities as back ups and eventual replacements.

Shanghai is desperate to take on that role, and if sufficiently displeased, Beijing will let them have it. If they are smart, they will give you full democracy as you demand while they are at it, and make HK a new kind of example for the rest of China and the world.

Fortunately for HK, Beijing isn't yet ready to sacrifice the city to make a point. But there will come a point at which the balance will shift.

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no, the reason has to do with mainland investments. otherwise, it doesn't explain from 2003 to 2014 it went from 1million to 5 million. everyone in Hk knows this, and it's happening in Vancouver, where I live too

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

im very pessimistic too. trust me, we are all beating dead with our hopes, but we are still fighting because we have literally nothing to lose now. it's also our dignity. I dunno if you guys understand how much it means to us, but if you guys think we think that's a silver bullet or don't know what we are getting ourselves into then you're wrong. also shows how much you guys don't understand our situation yet somehow making these judgments

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I won't say I understand.

But my stand is simple. Beijing government should let HK do what it wants. "One country, two systems" can mean "socialism vs capitalism", or it can also mean "one-party vs democracy".

Quite frankly, we have nothing to lose as well. As long as when things turn out bad, the HK people do not blame us, and the Western press don't blame us for HK's failure, and the Taiwan people see "unification" as a path that leads to failure and worsening of economic situations (though, to be frank, if HK fails, all these will probably happen).

Even though I'm worried about HK's future, I got to say at least some hope is better than nothing, right?

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

no, the reason has to do with mainland investments. otherwise, it doesn't explain from 2003 to 2014 it went from 1million to 5 million. everyone in Hk knows this, and it's happening in Vancouver, where I live too

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It's not just HK, or Vancouver....

Even in Singapore, locals blame us for pushing up prices and "stealing" jobs.

That's inevitable, when 1.3 billion people get rich, and richer, and richer, this is what happens on a global scale.

Wherever you go, you will see my fellow countrymen buying up properties, luxuries, cars, even private jets.

I'm not particularly proud of this kind of behaviour, but it their money so I guess I've got nothing to say.

The rest of the world will just have to deal with it, or find a way to make use of it to improve their own economies.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

I won't say I understand.

But my stand is simple. Beijing government should let HK do what it wants. "One country, two systems" can mean "socialism vs capitalism", or it can also mean "one-party vs democracy".

Quite frankly, we have nothing to lose as well. As long as when things turn out bad, the HK people do not blame us, and the Western press don't blame us for HK's failure, and the Taiwan people see "unification" as a path that leads to failure and worsening of economic situations (though, to be frank, if HK fails, all these will probably happen).

Even though I'm worried about HK's future, I got to say at least some hope is better than nothing, right?

Click to expand...

thanks for your regards. let's hope things work out and tensions can be defused. you must understand all this has been cooking for quite some time, and Hk doesn't actually wanna hate on China. I can tell you we are near the edge of hope, and we felt pushed to the corner, hence such an eventhat never before. you never hear hk has such an event right? yet we are still determined, and I honestly learned so much about my culture that I have never seen before.. such resilience.

regardless, thanks for your concerns and sharing your thoughts. please don't think this is just a moment for Hong Kong, it's also a historical moment for all of us Chinese to fight for real democracy in Chinese soil

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

It's not just HK, or Vancouver....

Even in Singapore, locals blame us for pushing up prices and "stealing" jobs.

That's inevitable, when 1.3 billion people get rich, and richer, and richer, this is what happens on a global scale.

Wherever you go, you will see my fellow countrymen buying up properties, luxuries, cars, even private jets.

I'm not particularly proud of this kind of behaviour, but it their money so I guess I've got nothing to say.

The rest of the world will just have to deal with it, or find a way to make use of it to improve their own economies.

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thanks for your truthfulness. we don't hate people like you. we appreciate and respect and commend you for emphasizing what we are going through. for me example, I don't even know where to buy my own place, and some new couples in Hk either got no affordable properties, and sometimes can't even make enough for hosting their own marriage. this is why I feel so much pain for my folks. our generation has nothing left to lose

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

xiabonan said:

I won't say I understand.

But my stand is simple. Beijing government should let HK do what it wants. "One country, two systems" can mean "socialism vs capitalism", or it can also mean "one-party vs democracy".

Quite frankly, we have nothing to lose as well. As long as when things turn out bad, the HK people do not blame us, and the Western press don't blame us for HK's failure, and the Taiwan people see "unification" as a path that leads to failure and worsening of economic situations (though, to be frank, if HK fails, all these will probably happen).

Even though I'm worried about HK's future, I got to say at least some hope is better than nothing, right?

Click to expand...

Oh come on, you know that's not how it will go.

The west is already blaming China for all sorts of stuff that has nothing to do China, ISIS and Ebola being just the latest examples.

If HK falls flat on its face because China let them have democracy, there is not way in hell the western media is going to allow the blame to be laid at the feet of their hallowed democracy, so that leaves China to take the blame. As usual.

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

airsuperiority said:

thanks for your regards. let's hope things work out and tensions can be defused. you must understand all this has been cooking for quite some time, and Hk doesn't actually wanna hate on China. I can tell you we are near the edge of hope, and we felt pushed to the corner, hence such an eventhat never before. you never hear hk has such an event right? yet we are still determined, and I honestly learned so much about my culture that I have never seen before.. such resilience.

regardless, thanks for your concerns and sharing your thoughts. please don't think this is just a moment for Hong Kong, it's also a historical moment for all of us Chinese to fight for real democracy in Chinese soil

Click to expand...

My bottom line is that as long as HK people consider themselves as Chinese, I'm fine with anything.

There are people, you know. I don't want to say those stuff here but I think you know better than I am.

Hate Beijing government or the CCP all you want--it's not really like Hong Kong's fight will destablise the entire China.

But as long as the Hong Kong people still recognise themselves as Chinese, and do not hold strong discriminatory views or acts against mainland people, I'm really fine with it, personally.