Groundless or True?

stonewind

New Member
Russian-Made Jets Threaten US Supremacy in Air Power



MosNews


The United States must modernize its fighter jets to maintain air supremacy, a top U.S. Air Force general said on Wednesday, the Reuters news agency reports. The general cited the success of advanced Russian-made jets against American planes in a recent exercise as signaling an erosion of its overwhelming advantage.

Gen. Hal Hornburg, head of U.S. Air Combat Command, said a U.S. air-to-air exercise with the Indian Air Force in February, in which India used Russian jets to defeat aging American F-15Cs, revealed “that we may not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as we once thought we were.”

Defense experts in both the United States and Europe, however, have said it is unlikely that America —- with vast spending power and a major industrial base —- would lose its dominance in military technology.

U.S. defense officials have said Indian SU-30, Mig-27, and older MiG-21 jets, some armed with Russian-made AA-10 air-to-air missiles, got the best of F-15s based in Alaska in exercise “Cope India” high over northern India.

Hornburg said in an interview with military writers that the air maneuvers emphasized his service’s push for expensive, stealthy new F/A-22 “Raptors” being built by Lockheed Martin Corp, and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters being designed by Lockheed with input from allies.

He declined to discuss the classified results of the exercise but said, “Something like Cope India, when we find that some of our advantages aren’t as great as we thought they might be, leads me to remind people that we need to modernize our air-to-air capability.”

Hornburg added, “We have been saying for a long time that we need newer fighters to do more things,” and that the Indian exercise could be a “wake-up call” for Washington.

Russia’s Sukhoi Aviation Works and the Moscow Air Production Organization company have been designing and building increasingly advanced fighters, such as the MiG-29, in recent years. India, China, and other countries are buying the warplanes —- some with contracts for co-production.

France and Sweden also build advanced combat planes, and a consortium of four European countries, including Britain, are producing the Eurofighter “Typhoon” jet.

“I see air forces across the spectrum and across the world becoming better and better as each year passes. That just means that we have to do the same thing,” said Hornburg.

“With air superiority, everything is possible. Without it, hardly anything’s possible” he added. “People jump to the conclusion that it is ours just because we go. And that’s blatantly false.”



Can anyone confirm this report, or is this made up?:confused:
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
It is true. What i don't understand is all the hoopla about it. Current generation of US fighters have been around since start of 80s. It's only natural other countries will catch up some day. So they did. And US will not sit ildly, they're still updating, giving aesa radars to f15s and f16s, helmet mounted targeting system, new weapons, etc.

Some newest gen planes like the eurofighter are probably superior to the said fighters - but that's only normal given they're just entering service. One generation is past its peak of power, which is why f22 and f35 are coming.

Thing to note is that no one is saying that current US fighters would be defeated all around - their supremacy is just threatened. lowered. less than it used to be. Instead of being able to win in 90% of air combat encounters around the world like, say, in 1995 - today that number dropped to 70%. Figures are purely illustrative of course.
 

ArjunMk1

Junior Member
US learnt it more critically during its air exercise with India during Cope India 2005 !! Not only flankers or Mig 29s , even old horse Mig 21s(upgraded ones ofcourse) gave them much trouble .

Its only stealth fighter like F22 or JSF which can beat the current Russian birds, but they too will take at least a decade to replace current F16s,F18s !!!


Today USAF with out AWACS is not any more a deadly force.
 
Totoro said:
Thing to note is that no one is saying that current US fighters would be defeated all around - their supremacy is just threatened. lowered. less than it used to be. Instead of being able to win in 90% of air combat encounters around the world like, say, in 1995 - today that number dropped to 70%. Figures are purely illustrative of course.

As Totoro mentioned the statement is simply that the US cannot be guaranteed air supremacy as much as they used to, which was practically all the time.

Additionally the newest generation of US fighters are going into production, at least the F-22, and will soon be on the front lines. Also the US planes used in the exercise, F-15Cs, are not even the best planes currently in the US inventory and the scenarios had conditions that removed some of the US tactical advantages that would likely be available in real combat, such as use of AWACS and more of an equal if not superior numerical match.

This exercise was politically a good budget argument for the USAF and militarily is one of many where the US military is guaging what combat conditions would be like against a Russian-armed large-sized adversary, which in the current US administration's terms can only mean China. India is a particularly good air force exercise partner for this since they use many platforms similar to China's.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
more Russian boasting and American modesty. I think most of us heard about the disadvantages faced by the Americans in Cope India. Seriously, the entire incident is just overhyped by the Pentagon for more budget on F-22 and by the Russian defense industry for more sales.

F-15C, F-16E, F-18E and F-14D all have great kill ratio against other fighters in the market. Just look at F-15's victories in the singapore and South Korean competitions, the American poweress isn't dropping at all.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
tphuang said:
more Russian boasting and American modesty. I think most of us heard about the disadvantages faced by the Americans in Cope India. Seriously, the entire incident is just overhyped by the Pentagon for more budget on F-22 and by the Russian defense industry for more sales.

F-15C, F-16E, F-18E and F-14D all have great kill ratio against other fighters in the market. Just look at F-15's victories in the singapore and South Korean competitions, the American poweress isn't dropping at all.

Tphuang you are right on point. Any modesty by the US is just to squeeze more $ out of the US congress. Most of whom know nothing about defense. That's all. When permited to use all the "toys" in wargames well the US is hard to beat. Remember they are just war games.

Today USAF with out AWACS is not any more a deadly force.

The US would never go into any combat situation without AWACs ,E-2C or E/A-6B's. Ain't gonna happen. That's ECM and AEW is what gives the US the edge....for now...As for the future:confused: ..who knows.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
tphuang said:
F-15C, F-16E, F-18E and F-14D all have great kill ratio against other fighters in the market.

Considering US never really went to a war against a powerful enemy, that doesn't say very much. Planes you've mentioned fought and won against the likes of mig 21s, mig 23s, early mig 29s, etc. All were wars where US had both vast numerical advantage plus the edge give by awacs type planes. As we all know, full situational awareness and command and control of your forces is a must. It'd be harder for US if it went to war with the likes of russia, for example, who does have significant awacs resources. China should be able to join that club in the coming years.

tphuang said:
Just look at F-15's victories in the singapore and South Korean competitions, the American poweress isn't dropping at all.

Sales of military equipment more often than not are political games of economic pressure and reward, they're stick and carrot kind of a deal. More often than not they do not reflect the true evaluation of the capabilites gained versus resources needed. Singapore may've been as close to a fair deal as possible but i seriously doubt south korea had any leeway to choose anything else. The poliical connection between SK and USA is just too close.
 
Top