054B/next generation frigate

[Blitzo]

Can anyone explain me why PLAN has one helo per ship? Does it have anything to do with relatively low ratio of helicopters to ships? Helos are notorious for low availability and facilities for a second helo doesn't double aviation facilities.

Limited helicopter fleet size (which is limited by industry), choice to use the displacement for other purposes.

Everything is a trade-off. You'll be giving up something else to add another helicopter hangar.

 

[Gloire_bb]

054B size is closer to 052D than 054A. It will be like 052D but cost effective, while 055 stay as high end. No sign of 052D sized replacement yet. We will likely see 052D batch to drop once 054B are in full production. That is like couple years.

The 052D(L) itself is quite new and is in full production.
The likelihood that 054b will be a light destroyer under the disguise of a frigate IMHO is nil.

 

[Tam]

Can anyone explain me why PLAN has one helo per ship? Does it have anything to do with relatively low ratio of helicopters to ships? Helos are notorious for low availability and facilities for a second helo doesn't double aviation facilities.

Hangers on the destroyers have enough space for two. The main reason why you bother with a spine or raised opening and roof in the hanger is only for fitting the Ka-28. I think you can stick two Z-9s if you want, but you can only use one Ka-28. You also have the option of leaving one helo open in the deck while keeping an extra in the hanger.

 

[Blitzo]

Hangers on the destroyers have enough space for two. The main reason why you bother with a spine or raised opening and roof in the hanger is only for fitting the Mil-28. I think you can stick two Z-9s if you want, but you can only use one Mil-28.

???

No, 052Ds only have one hangar that can only carry 1 helicopter (regardless of whether it's Z-9 or Ka-28 or Z-20 in case of 052DL).

The only modern destroyer that carries two helicopters in PLAN is 055.
Old original 052 and 051B could as well but they're not very relevant

 

[kwaigonegin]

Can anyone explain me why PLAN has one helo per ship? Does it have anything to do with relatively low ratio of helicopters to ships? Helos are notorious for low availability and facilities for a second helo doesn't double aviation facilities.

I'm guessing it has more to do with their overall strategic goals. PLAN in the foreseeable future still intends to operate mostly inside the 2nd island chain with occasional excursions and operations into Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf region.
As such most of thier intended operational goals do not necessitate a dual helo solution.
Airborne ASW can also be run from the bigger reef Islands once they are certified to run Y8s or future improved versions of the Y8Qs.

 

[antiterror13]

054B will be the most important escort ship in the navy replacing role of 054A as backbone of the fleet.

Replacing 054A or as a compliment with different missions ?

 

[Gloire_bb]

Slight offtop: it's mildly funny to look at how US Congress acts not unlike an internet forum - doing everything in their power to make a 052D-ish second-rank destroyer out of a frigate.

Mandating cruise missiles, ultra-long range SAM capability (when there is not enough missiles in stocks anyways), repeatedly asking for more cells right on the brink of first units L/Ds ...at the expense of any chances to actually start making them in time and in numbers.

The point of a frigate is being a frigate; excessive ersatz destroyer capability comes at the expense of what it shall be doing - at the expense of money that should be spent on battle units.

Precisely because of that it's so interesting to watch 054B development, because the military fan community acts in the exact same way (and did throughout the whole history).
The question is, how resilient is PLAN to this pressure?

 

[kriss]

Slight offtop: it's mildly funny to look at how US Congress acts not unlike an internet forum - doing everything in their power to make a 052D-ish second-rank destroyer out of a frigate.

Mandating cruise missiles, ultra-long range SAM capability (when there is not enough missiles in stocks anyways), repeatedly asking for more cells right on the brink of first units L/Ds ...at the expense of any chances to actually start making them in time and in numbers.

The point of a frigate is being a frigate; excessive ersatz destroyer capability comes at the expense of what it shall be doing - at the expense of money that should be spent on battle units.

Precisely because of that it's so interesting to watch 054B development, because the military fan community acts in the exact same way (and did throughout the whole history).
The question is, how resilient is PLAN to this pressure?

Congress people don't have any military understanding only knows they need the biggest stick they can get. Over specification a frigate would only result the same debacle they have right now: having to use more capable than needed thus also very expensive and not numerous enough ships for mundane everyday missions.

 

[plawolf]

Can anyone explain me why PLAN has one helo per ship? Does it have anything to do with relatively low ratio of helicopters to ships? Helos are notorious for low availability and facilities for a second helo doesn't double aviation facilities.

Also to do with fleet composition.

USN Burkes need dual hangers because they are expected to operate independently, while PLAN major surface combatants rarely operation solo outside of peacetime routine patrol duties close to home waters. There is less need for a second helo on your DDGs when you can sent a FFG as a buddy when needed.

One of the main reasons for the 054B is to be able to better keep up with DDGs and carriers for long range missions/patrols.

The 054As will remain closer to home waters as a second line patrol and defence asset used largely for convoy close protection and low threat environment patrols while the 054Bs, DDGs and carries form the long range expeditionary fleet elements.

While having dual hangers is indeed better than single helo hangers, it’s largely a good-to-have feature for PLAN ships rather than must-have as is the case for most other navies.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

This:

Slight offtop: it's mildly funny to look at how US Congress acts not unlike an internet forum - doing everything in their power to make a 052D-ish second-rank destroyer out of a frigate.

Mandating cruise missiles, ultra-long range SAM capability (when there is not enough missiles in stocks anyways), repeatedly asking for more cells right on the brink of first units L/Ds ...at the expense of any chances to actually start making them in time and in numbers.

The point of a frigate is being a frigate; excessive ersatz destroyer capability comes at the expense of what it shall be doing - at the expense of money that should be spent on battle units.

Coupled with this:

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Apparently, the present wishlish by the USN is as follows:
3x Arleigh Burke DDGs per year
4x Constellation FFGs per year
3x Virginia SSNs per year
1x Columbia SSBNs per year

Well, that's gonna take a good while to realise, if ever.