Chinese Engine Development

[Blitzo]

Most of them came to this forum to get info especially from you Sir, you are renouned among the PLA community watchers.

Kind of you to say, but I'm just one among many here.

What's important is that people have the motivation to use effort to try to post high quality content and give high quality contributions and questions.

 

[Derpy]

With regards to China using Japanese CNC machines to make engines, I think this is more for legacy reasons than something else. A decade ago Chinese CNC machines were not good enough. Right now they probably are good enough, but you do not just trash machines you already have in production for no reason, so this is basically institutional inertia.

All other countries use a variety of CNC brands, why would China be any different ? I expect them to continue to buy foreign machines in the future as well even if domestic might increase their market share.
It is not only about being "better" one machine might be a better fit for a certain task or it has options that are not available on another or the local service is better etc
Economics also comes into play, some machines are known for having very little downtime and keep their accuracy for years, this reputation obviously takes a long time to achieve so a well known Japanese brand will be the "safe" option over a new domestic brand even if they have similar performance on paper.
Often you try to stick to the same brand (or very few brands) to make service and support easier.

 

[Quickie]

From the link in Siegecrossbow's post.

China’s dependence on Russian fighter aircraft engines may soon affect the People’s Liberation Army Air Force fleet if Russia can’t service or provide engines or parts for up to 40 percent of the Chinese fighters,

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said May 17.

Is there any truth in the above statement?

China stopped importing Russian engines for its J11s like decades ago.

 

[latenlazy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640128356049104898

According to this presentation Q&A China is 98% self sufficient with WS-10C production. And the last fighters we’ve seen using Russian engines was the J-20 before 2020. So uh, you tell me.

 

[zszczhyx]

All the information about engine development came from The 7th China Aviation Innovation and Entrepreneurship Competition National Finals 7 days ago. In addition to engines, there were many other experts spoke, they revealed valuable information. For example, the laser shock peening of the large aircraft structure has reached the same level as the US.
【第七届中国航空创新创业大赛全国总决赛】

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[Derpy]

From the link in Siegecrossbow's post.


Is there any truth in the above statement?

China stopped importing Russian engines for its J11s like decades ago.

All the planes flying with Russian engines still need spare parts though ?
The whole thing is just theoretical anyway "IF Russian can't service..", until we see any proof of this there is no point speculating.

 

[henrik]

All other countries use a variety of CNC brands, why would China be any different ? I expect them to continue to buy foreign machines in the future as well even if domestic might increase their market share.
It is not only about being "better" one machine might be a better fit for a certain task or it has options that are not available on another or the local service is better etc
Economics also comes into play, some machines are known for having very little downtime and keep their accuracy for years, this reputation obviously takes a long time to achieve so a well known Japanese brand will be the "safe" option over a new domestic brand even if they have similar performance on paper.
Often you try to stick to the same brand (or very few brands) to make service and support easier.

You try to stick to the same brand, until you get sanctioned. Starting from that point you have to go fully domestic, even if it is not as economical. If they have learned their lesson, they should start localizing now, rather than wait for the sanctions to come.

 

[BoraTas]

All the planes flying with Russian engines still need spare parts though ?
The whole thing is just theoretical anyway "IF Russian can't service..", until we see any proof of this there is no point speculating.

Russia had run out of munitions and wasn't capable of producing them on its own. Think tankies said so in May 2022.

 

[sunnymaxi]

From the link in Siegecrossbow's post.


Is there any truth in the above statement?

China stopped importing Russian engines for its J11s like decades ago.

All the planes flying with Russian engines still need spare parts though ?
The whole thing is just theoretical anyway "IF Russian can't service..", until we see any proof of this there is no point speculating.

as usual exaggeration from the western experts. 40 percent statement is laughable

as of now Russian engine equipped fighter jets rapidly down in PLAAF inventory. many old J-11 and J-10 re-engined with WS-10. coz WS-10 production skyrocketed. Shenyang rolling off hundreds of units per year. from January to June 2022, they produced 200+ WS-10 units.

PLAAF phasing out AL-31 engine one by one after engine finish its service life. they don't repair coz they don't need to do.

PLAAF want to stick with one standard engine with Chinese origin. remaining AL-31F fleet will replace very soon with WS-10.

 

[Lethe]

Technically this only closed the gap by 20 years. But I have a feeling that closing the next 20 will be much much easier and faster.

Could you expand on this for those of us with little background who nonetheless with to place these developments in the appropriate context? That is to say, what engine or technology parallels lead to your statement that recent developments mean that China is now closing the gap by 20 years (and still has a 20-year gap left to close)?