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Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
My wife depends on me financially. Does that mean she's a junior partner in our marriage? I don't bloody think so.

Russia is more like a brother than a wife...no treaty alliance, not comparable to marriage.

That doesn't make it a junior partner, that makes it a comrade-in-arms.
"Comrade-in-arms" is a term you use to describe brothers, not wives...unless you are into role playing. Hey no judgement ;-)
 

Topazchen

Junior Member
Registered Member
You don't even read. All I said is about economics. Did I mention NATO anywhere in the post? Russia can fight the whole Galactic Empire and it still wouldnt matter. On economics Russia will become China's junior partner. And as a result its diplomatic influence will diminish.

You can hype up Russia all you want, but its clear as day that Russia will depend on China from now on.
Going by your logic, is Australia China's junior partner ? 30 % of her trade is with China, and nearly all minerals, from iron ore to coal, are bought by China .
 

Phead128

Major
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Going by your logic, is Australia China's junior partner ? 30 % of her trade is with China, and nearly all minerals, from iron ore to coal, are bought by China .
Australia is already a little brother to American big brother.

many even admit China was a little brother to Soviet Union big brother for many years due to dependency on weapons, economic aid, and tech transfers. Not sure if we reached that yet on military front, but economically the cards have flipped.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Going by your logic, is Australia China's junior partner ? 30 % of her trade is with China, and nearly all minerals, from iron ore to coal, are bought by China .
Australia is part of the American Empire. Your comparison is flawed because even with 100% dependency as long as the US says a word, that 100% can become 0% overnight (with complete economic devastation of course).

Russia and Australia are incomparable. Same if it was Germany, S.Korea, Japan etc. They are part of the American Empire, economic dependencies don't have priority over the center's orders.

Russia however is a free and an independent country however. Russia can freely choose between being China's junior partner or sliding towards irrelevancy. China doesn't pressure anyone, the choice Russia has made is entirely of its own

Btw Australia's trade is made with US dollars. Russia has already announced a full spectrum switch on using RMB on international trade
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Australia is part of the American Empire. Your comparison is flawed because even with 100% dependency as long as the US says a word, that 100% can become 0% overnight (with complete economic devastation of course).

Russia and Australia are incomparable. Same if it was Germany, S.Korea, Japan etc. They are part of the American Empire, economic dependencies don't have priority over the center's orders.

Russia however is a free and an independent country however. Russia can freely choose between being China's junior partner or sliding towards irrelevancy. China doesn't pressure anyone, the choice Russia has made is entirely of its own

Btw Australia's trade is made with US dollars. Russia has already announced a full spectrum switch on using RMB on international trade
I thought Australia is selling iron to China for RMB already? At least the top giant companies started doing so. It was in the news last year.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I thought Australia is selling iron to China for RMB already? At least the top giant companies started doing so. It was in the news last year.
Some of them, and that's one part of it. We don't even know the volumes.

In general, Russia is going to (push) to trade with everyone on RMB. While in Australia, some companies, may trade some (I am not sure if this for all iron ore sales) of their sales in RMB when selling only to China.

As I said, there is no comparison to be made between these two countries
 

solarz

Brigadier
Obviously you don't understand International Relations. That you compare relations between countries to your relation with your wife further reinforces that point.

I would suggest refraining from speaking so confidently if you don't understand the difference between relations between countries and married husband and wife.

If you need some further elaboration:
"We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."

Countries follow the above mantra, individual married people obviously don't for a good reason

Irrelevant deflection.

Cooperation by definition means you depend on your partner or team for their abilities and contributions. This applies equally to marriages, businesses, society, and international relations.

Junior partnership means one partner makes the decisions while the other follows. The Russian China partnership has not shown any dynamic that would indicate an unequal partnership, so your claim remains an unadulterated fantasy.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
You don't seem to understand where Incheon is then. View attachment 109593
From if you draw a line from Jeju to Shanghai, everything within can get hit by even Chinese old gen anti ship and cruise missiles.

So what is the point of "commanding ROKN forces at Incheon to blockade any Chinese forces from coming out of the Bohai sea"? You might as well say "China will command forces stationed at Solomon islands to blockade all US navy coming from Hawaii".

Incheon is not defensible. It's not "north Korean coastal raids" they're going to fear, it's mass bombardment by NK and precision strike (likely in numerically no less terms than what NK brings) by China, followed by all out land assault.

Busan is probably the safest area in SK and it is still not safe from strikes.

From anywhere around the Bohai on the CN/NK side, DF17s can hit all of SK. This means you can't even base a ship in a SK harbor for longer times as it'll get striked by non interceptable.

SK ground forces might be as fanatical as NK ones, but if Seoul participates in an invasion of China, it'll not just be NK hitting them, but they'll be surrounded by Chinese strike options and if not Russian direct participation, then at least Russian ISR assets freely flying over "international" airspace and lighting them up.

It'll by no means be a trivial fight because of their fanaticism, but China has a ton of North Korean bodies, and with cut supply and destroyed infrastructure, the odds are very heavily stacked against long term SK survival.

Of course America in the event of SK agreeing to an attack on China would take over the command, but they would still need to use their pawns smartly, and that means keeping them at most around Busan and the Tsushima straits.
You have just confirmed that I was right. Look at that map. Incheon is a convenient launch pad for ROKN to try to intercept PLAN movements coming out of the Bohai Sea. Yes SK will not be safe from any attack coming from China and North Korea. Yes, the PLA and NK can easily reach out and devastate SK.

Still, we cannot underestimate the power of stupidity. Look at US allies in Europe right now, Look at how stupid the Eastern European NATO states are. Poland and the Baltic States are itching for a fight with Russia, even if it means devastation for them. Ukraine is throwing men into the Russian meat grinder for little military value, just because they want to keep impressing NATO and the Americans.

Think from the cynical view of the US for once. If SK eats a DF-17 from China, that's one less DF-17 heading to US forces. It doesn't even matter that China has probably enough DF-17s for all of them. This is what the US desires the most. Willing meat shields of coloured people to die for America. America's mission to puppet and radicalize SK against China is gaining momentum. For decades, the SK military is targeted against NK. But in recent years, the US wants to pivot that military to target China instead. And why not, if you're America?

My point for all this SK war theory is for China to have a war plan that counts them in, just in case. If they want to join the US-led war against China, let them come and finish them off. If they grow some brains and stay out of it, then they can keep their way of life and be left alone.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator

British high commission employee survival starter pack:

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