J-10 Thread IV

[Andy1974]

Sorry to contradict, but why should the green part of the sine be translucent for EM and as such be some sort of EW-device, when otherwise the green part of the fuselage - as on all J-10s before and JF-17s - is said to be made of CFK and related to fuel cells?

Surely the whole centre-body is not a huge EW-emitter!

Thanks, I did ask what it was though.

Sorry for my behavior, I’ll try to be a better member in the future.

 

[Deino]

The production rate of J20 has already surpassed J16 if you haven't noticed.

~ 200+ : 250+, it used to be 40+ : 200+ two years ago. It seems like the PLAAF had been restricting the order for j16 for reason unknown. On the contrary, you can tell the PLAAF can't wait to get more J20 out of CAC.

First, I'm sure you know me, so I didn't miss this but even with a higher J-20 production rate, you don't replace J-16s which were just delivered! We have just seen Batch 10 & 11 this year, so also the J-16's rate is far from low. As such, I see nothing that the "PLAAF had been restricting the order for j16" and even lesser anything that J-20 are replacing J-16 units; at least not yet.

 

[Schwerter_]

It seems like the PLAAF had been restricting the order for j16 for reason unknown.

Absolutely no idea where this is coming from, since if you have paid ANY attention to the production of J-16 you’ll notice that it has ramped up very quickly since initially entering service to the upper limit of SAC’s ability (~50 per year) and have stayed that way till now. Please, please and please research before making claims

 

[phrozenflame]

An important part of the equation will be variety of UCAVs, dedicated and multirole, super Ssnic, highly stealthy ones that will eventually emerge. They will change the whole paradigm. Everything J-10 and below will be replaced by them. All this again will be rapidly enabled with China finally having the necessary breakthroughs in Engine tech.

Then there are J-35s too.

 

[tphuang]

I listened to guancha podcast today for the ones from this week. 2 topics: 1) PAF and J10C 2) China/Russia's recent joint patrol.

it's pretty obvious why J-10 worked great for PLAAF back 20 years ago, but not so much now. For PAF, J-10CE is kind of like a heavy fighter jet for them. It has plenty of range for Pakistan and can carry attack munitions. It's larger and has more power than F-16s. To them, flankers would be kind of unnecessary. But for PLAAF, it's been obvious for a while that J-10 cannot satisfy future demand. Back 10 years ago, China would have to send Su-30 and J-11As if they wanted to do long range patrol and escort missions in Japanese ADIZ. J-10s simply didn't have the range to be used in that role. Clearly, that's not a great matchup against upgraded F-15s. With J-16s, now they have a modern aircraft that can also escort H-6K and Tu-95 through the area. With YY-20 along the way, J-16 can escort bombers all the way to Russia.

If the combat radius of J-16 with 1 refueling is 1600km and J-10C with 1 refueling is 1200km, the difference might not sound like a lot. But in terms of actual missions, that extra 400 km opens up a lot of bases that can now operate and support a mission into Japan.

As we discuss the importance of being able to hit Japanese air bases in a possible westpac scenario, you will find that NTC is severely under armed in terms of long range aircraft. There is only 1 J-20 and 1 J-16 brigade in there that we know of. As such, you don't have a lot of fighter jet that can escort attack aircraft to with 300 km of Misawa air base or Tokyo and patrol there for some time. You also, don't have a lot of modern fighter bombs that can launch stand off missiles to those targets. ETC is really well equipped with both J-20s and J-16s, but ETC aircraft aren't going to be able to attack those targets in North and central eastern part of Honshu island. When I look at NTC, I just see a lot of air bases with aircraft that simply can't do any attack missions. Maybe J-10 base next to Korean border can be helpful like the 61st brigade, but that's about it. As such, they need to quickly move some of those brigades to WTC or CTC and put new J-20/J-16 in those places.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

I listened to guancha podcast today for the ones from this week. 2 topics: 1) PAF and J10C 2) China/Russia's recent joint patrol.

it's pretty obvious why J-10 worked great for PLAAF back 20 years ago, but not so much now. For PAF, J-10CE is kind of like a heavy fighter jet for them. It has plenty of range for Pakistan and can carry attack munitions. It's larger and has more power than F-16s. To them, flankers would be kind of unnecessary. But for PLAAF, it's been obvious for a while that J-10 cannot satisfy future demand. Back 10 years ago, China would have to send Su-30 and J-11As if they wanted to do long range patrol and escort missions in Japanese ADIZ. J-10s simply didn't have the range to be used in that role. Clearly, that's not a great matchup against upgraded F-15s. With J-16s, now they have a modern aircraft that can also escort H-6K and Tu-95 through the area. With YY-20 along the way, J-16 can escort bombers all the way to Russia.

If the combat radius of J-16 with 1 refueling is 1600km and J-10C with 1 refueling is 1200km, the difference might not sound like a lot. But in terms of actual missions, that extra 400 km opens up a lot of bases that can now operate and support a mission into Japan.

As we discuss the importance of being able to hit Japanese air bases in a possible westpac scenario, you will find that NTC is severely under armed in terms of long range aircraft. There is only 1 J-20 and 1 J-16 brigade in there that we know of. As such, you don't have a lot of fighter jet that can escort attack aircraft to with 300 km of Misawa air base or Tokyo and patrol there for some time. You also, don't have a lot of modern fighter bombs that can launch stand off missiles to those targets. ETC is really well equipped with both J-20s and J-16s, but ETC aircraft aren't going to be able to attack those targets in North and central eastern part of Honshu island. When I look at NTC, I just see a lot of air bases with aircraft that simply can't do any attack missions. Maybe J-10 base next to Korean border can be helpful like the 61st brigade, but that's about it. As such, they need to quickly move some of those brigades to WTC or CTC and put new J-20/J-16 in those places.

Haven't they emphasised quick deployment of J-20 to other airbases, remember something like that being discussed at this year zhuhai.

 

[Blitzo]

Haven't they emphasised quick deployment of J-20 to other airbases, remember something like that being discussed at this year zhuhai.

Yes, but depending on the conflict, you may not be able to redeploy J-20 units to other theater commands because their own home theater command might need them more.

Which is to say, there is still an important role for having theater command organic capabilities.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

Yes, but depending on the conflict, you may not be able to redeploy J-20 units to other theater commands because their own home theater command might need them more.

Which is to say, there is still an important role for having theater command organic capabilities.

Oh yea definitely.

 

[caohailiang]

I listened to guancha podcast today for the ones from this week. 2 topics: 1) PAF and J10C 2) China/Russia's recent joint patrol.

it's pretty obvious why J-10 worked great for PLAAF back 20 years ago, but not so much now. For PAF, J-10CE is kind of like a heavy fighter jet for them. It has plenty of range for Pakistan and can carry attack munitions. It's larger and has more power than F-16s. To them, flankers would be kind of unnecessary. But for PLAAF, it's been obvious for a while that J-10 cannot satisfy future demand. Back 10 years ago, China would have to send Su-30 and J-11As if they wanted to do long range patrol and escort missions in Japanese ADIZ. J-10s simply didn't have the range to be used in that role. Clearly, that's not a great matchup against upgraded F-15s. With J-16s, now they have a modern aircraft that can also escort H-6K and Tu-95 through the area. With YY-20 along the way, J-16 can escort bombers all the way to Russia.

If the combat radius of J-16 with 1 refueling is 1600km and J-10C with 1 refueling is 1200km, the difference might not sound like a lot. But in terms of actual missions, that extra 400 km opens up a lot of bases that can now operate and support a mission into Japan.

As we discuss the importance of being able to hit Japanese air bases in a possible westpac scenario, you will find that NTC is severely under armed in terms of long range aircraft. There is only 1 J-20 and 1 J-16 brigade in there that we know of. As such, you don't have a lot of fighter jet that can escort attack aircraft to with 300 km of Misawa air base or Tokyo and patrol there for some time. You also, don't have a lot of modern fighter bombs that can launch stand off missiles to those targets. ETC is really well equipped with both J-20s and J-16s, but ETC aircraft aren't going to be able to attack those targets in North and central eastern part of Honshu island. When I look at NTC, I just see a lot of air bases with aircraft that simply can't do any attack missions. Maybe J-10 base next to Korean border can be helpful like the 61st brigade, but that's about it. As such, they need to quickly move some of those brigades to WTC or CTC and put new J-20/J-16 in those places.

i think current NTC is more focused on a Korean scenario. Another focus of course is defending the capital. Many of NTCs J10 units are well suited for those missions.

In a general westpac scenario, they probably need reenforcement from other TC

 

[tphuang]

i think current NTC is more focused on a Korean scenario. Another focus of course is defending the capital. Many of NTCs J10 units are well suited for those missions.

In a general westpac scenario, they probably need reenforcement from other TC

That's the point right? As the purpose of your theater changes, your fleet composition also need to change. Northern theater will need to carry the brunt of attack against bases in japan. It's just sub optimal to fly longer ranged aircraft to air bases in northern theater and expect the bases to be able to get them ready for battle with the same availability and lethality as their home base. As such, china needs to get those j10 and j7 brigades out of there.