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Scratch

Captain
Well, Finn, your statement is only correct regarding actuall "hot wars".
After 1990 we had a lot of MiG-29As and their pilots in our Luftwaffe, and of course NATO allies were keen to "fight" against them.
So there were mockup engagements. The Fulcrums were to provide targets for the others to train. However, after boring days of flying sim targets for others, the (former east) german pilots asked for permission to fly as they liked. They were granted and allegedly splashed Hornets out of the sky like flies. Especially when paired with good radars in Phantom IIs.
The next day they were restricted to flying sim target again.
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
I am not saying US jetfighters are no good. I think they are amongst the best in the world, and possibly THE BEST. What I am saying is that US jetfighters are NOT the best in every part of aerial combat.

Yes, recent hot wars (hot wars = real wars) show US jetfighters are vastly superior to Russian jetfighters, but in hot wars, LOTS of factors are involved: pilot and soldier skill, teamwork within a unit, morale, economic strength, allies, numbers, maintenance, supplies, AWACs and electronic warfare, teamwork throughout the entire military, command, preparation, espionage, covert operations, location, weather, adaptability, etc.

In simulated wars, the fights are strictly done so only a few factors are involved. In simulated dogfights that do NOT involve computer simulations but do involve real life pilots and jetfighters, Russian jetfighters have bested US jetfighters in dogfights. There have been simulated dogfights between the Su-27 family and the MiG-29 family versus the F-16C, F/A-18C, and F-15C. The Su-27 family even fought with the J-10 and Eurofighter Typhoon in simulated fights, but the results of these fights have been secret.

In medium and long range combat, most simulated fights show US jetfighters are vastly superior to the Russians. BVR combat is very important, because the Su-27 family have been able to defeat the MiG-29 in medium and long range combats in at least one real war and many simulated wars. US jetfighters can probably shoot down Russian jetfighters before Russian jetfighters can get close enough for a dogfight.

Look up these simulated dogfights. An amateur like me easily found them. I repeat: the results were only for simulated dogfights or simulated close range combat.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Also to note of course, besides being aerodynamicly maneuverable, another WVR combat advantage of the Fulcrums was their AA-11 missile + helmet mounted cueing sight combo. Wich, when used effectively, could be really dangerous.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Also to note of course, besides being aerodynamicly maneuverable, another WVR combat advantage of the Fulcrums was their AA-11 missile + helmet mounted cueing sight combo. Wich, when used effectively, could be really dangerous.

However, the West have countered with Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System coupled with the AIM-9X, or IRIS-T, or ASRAAM.
 

SampanViking

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This is rather ominous news

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Not matter how you spin it, this is a veteran combat unit being deployed on US soil to deal with Civil Unrest in the wake of the economic crisis and Blank Cheque Bail Out!
 

sinojosh123

New Member
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This is rather ominous news

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Not matter how you spin it, this is a veteran combat unit being deployed on US soil to deal with Civil Unrest in the wake of the economic crisis and Blank Cheque Bail Out!

I don't think they have that kind of civil unrest. But there may be one depending on the new president.
 

Scratch

Captain
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DoD Cancels Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter

The Defense Department late today scrapped the $6.2 billion program to replace the aging OH-58D Kiowa Warrior with the Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter, citing cost overruns.
[...]
The embattled ARH program has been beset by delays and cost escalation since the program's baseline price tag was established in July 2005.

At that time, the per-unit cost for a new armed reconnaissance helicopter was tagged at $8.56 million, including research and development, site construction and labor. As of July, the cost of each aircraft was estimated by the Army to exceed $12 million, a cost 43 percent beyond the baseline estimate was reported July 8 to the Defense Department and Congress.

DoD now estimates that development will cost $942 million and the procurement average unit cost will be $14.48 million. Delivery of ARH to the Army was originally scheduled to take place by 2009, but the current projection is for 2013. ...

That is now the second recce helo replacement programm in a row that got axed. At first the Comanche was to bring army's helo aviation into a new age with a stealth helo. After it's cost skyrocketed though, a cheaper and less capable replacement was projected, the ARH. Now that spare programm has itself become to expensive to afford.
The industrial military complex seems to be in a slight crises.
The Kiowas are getting older, and the need for an eventual replacement becomes ever more pressing.

And another helo project, this time positive:

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US SOCOM takes delivery of Hummingbird

US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) has begun purchasing a new unmanned helicopter, Boeing's A160T Hummingbird, which can be used for resupply and surveillance missions and will soon be equipped with a new radar that can identify enemy targets hiding beneath dense tree cover. ...
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
That is now the second recce helo replacement programm in a row that got axed. At first the Comanche was to bring army's helo aviation into a new age with a stealth helo. After it's cost skyrocketed though, a cheaper and less capable replacement was projected, the ARH. Now that spare programm has itself become to expensive to afford.
The industrial military complex seems to be in a slight crises.
The Kiowas are getting older, and the need for an eventual replacement becomes ever more pressing.

The problem was that Bell screwed the contract up. They encountered a 3 year delay and a major cost overrun. The Army suspended the program about a year ago, because the project was so screwed up. And it was not until after Bell promised to fix the errors and assume responsibility for additional cost overruns, was the program put back on.

The Army then told them that if they continued to fail to meet their objectives, the Army would cancel the project. Fast forward to today. Contract canned. The Army is now running disciplined purchase programs and this cancellation shows it.

Bell's track record is taking a beating right now; they just lost the ARH contract due to project mismanagement, and their reputation also took a major beating with the AH-1Z and UH-1Y upgrade...

We will see this contract probably retendered; Boeing will try to introduce their AH-6 ARH (which was beaten in the last contract), or EADS can slip in with an armed version of their UH-72 Lakota helicopter (this project has been well run, and it is in service). I don't think Bell will be given a second shot at this; they screwed up, and they should face the consequences.
 
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crobato

Colonel
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Designing a Bomb a perishable skill?


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By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - The mighty U.S. arsenal of nuclear weapons, midwived by World War II and nurtured by the Cold War, is declining in power and purpose while the military's competence in handling the world's most dangerous arms has eroded. At the same time, international efforts to contain the spread of such weapons look ineffective.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, for one, wants the next president to think about what nuclear middle-age and decline means for national security.

Gates joins a growing debate about the reliability and future credibility of the American arsenal with his first extensive speech on nuclear arms Tuesday. The debate is attracting increasing attention inside the Pentagon even as the military is preoccupied with fighting insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The unconventional tools of war there include covert commandos, but not nuclear weapons.

Gates is expected to call for increased commitment to preserving the deterrent value of atomic weapons. Their chief function has evolved from first stopping the Nazis and Japanese, then the Soviets. Now the vast U.S. stockpile serves mainly to make any other nation think twice about developing or using even a crude nuclear device of its own.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, wrote in the current issue of an internal publication, Joint Force Quarterly, that the United States is overdue to retool its nuclear strategy. He referred to nuclear deterrence - the idea that the credible threat of U.S. nuclear retaliation is enough by itself to stop a potential enemy from striking first with a weapon of mass destruction.

"Many, if not most, of the individuals who worked deterrence in the 1970s and 1980s - the real experts at this discipline - are not doing it anymore," Mullen wrote. "And we have not even tried to find their replacements."

Gen. Kevin Chilton, commander of U.S. Strategic Command, which is responsible for maintaining the nation's nuclear war plans, told Congress last spring that technical nuclear expertise also is lagging.

"The last nuclear design engineer to participate in the development and testing of a new nuclear weapon is scheduled to retire in the next five years," Chilton said.

Of the two senators competing to succeed President Bush, Democrat Barack Obama is most unequivocally against building new nuclear weapons. Both he and Republican John McCain say in their campaign materials that they support the long-standing U.S. commitment to eventually do away with nuclear arms. Neither says explicitly that the safety or credibility of the arsenal is in question; that's an argument made most frequently by congressional Republicans.

Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., for example, said in a speech Sept. 15 that the network of laboratories and industrial plants that produce and maintain U.S. nuclear weapons is, in some cases, "simply falling down from age," and that this amounts to an alarming national "emergency."

Some private experts dispute Kyl's assessment.

"It's completely overblown," said Hans M. Kristensen, who tracks nuclear weapons developments for the Federation of American Scientists. The advocacy group opposes the Bush administration's proposal to develop a new nuclear weapon design.

The number of nuclear weapons in the U.S. arsenal is a state secret. But Kristensen and a fellow expert, Robert S. Norris, estimate that the total stood at nearly 5,400 warheads at the start of this year. That includes an estimated 4,075 ready for potential use and 1,260 in backup status.

In an interview, Kristensen argued that even though the number is declining, the capability of remaining weapons is increasing as older missiles, for example, get new engines, guidance sets and computer software.

Gates takes a different view. He has expressed concern about lack of official attention to the nuclear arsenal.

"Even though the days of hair-trigger superpower confrontation are over, as long as other nations possess the bomb and the means to deliver it, the United States must maintain a credible strategic deterrent," he said Sept. 29 in a speech at the National Defense University.

Gates tied the question of credibility to well-publicized slip-ups in Air Force nuclear operations. In June he fired the Air Force's top general, Michael Moseley, as well as the top civilian, Michael Wynne, after an outside investigation concluded that the Air Force had not adequately heeded warning signs that its nuclear expertise, performance and stewardship were eroding over a period of years.

In August 2007, a B-52 bomber flew from an Air Force base in North Dakota to a base in Louisiana with nuclear warheads that neither the bomber's pilots nor its crew knew were aboard. Then came the revelation that electrical fuses that trigger the detonation of strategic nuclear missiles had been shipped mistakenly to Taiwan - and the mistake was not discovered for months.

Richard Wagner, a physicist who worked in the government's nuclear weapons laboratories for many years, told a conference in Washington this past week that the August 2007 incident was "the worst breach of security of nuclear weapons that the United States has ever had."
 

crobato

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Hanging on to the defense budget.

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Wall Street Bail Out Won't Damage US Defence Budget
26 September 2008

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A massive bailout for Wall Street will not lead to a 'gutting' of the US defence budget, but the US military will come under increasing pressure to review big weapons programmes and see if they are really needed, the Navy's top uniformed officer said Thursday.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead said there had not yet been much discussion within the Pentagon about the impact of the financial crisis, and it would fall to the new administration to make decisions about future defence budgets.

"I don't think there's going to be a gutting of the budget in the near term, but I think that you have to be prepared for some pressurisation to occur," Roughead said in remarks to the Center for a New American Security, a nonpartisan defence think tank based in Washington.

Lawmakers underscored the importance of reining in massive cost overruns on big Pentagon weapons programs at a Senate hearing on Thursday, saying reforms were long overdue.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) this year reported cost overruns on the Pentagon's 95 largest weapons programs amounted to $295bn over their original programme estimates, raising their overall price tag to $1.6tn.

Sen. Thomas Carper, chairman of the subcommittee on federal financial management of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said the Pentagon was wasting valuable money at a time when Americans faced huge financial problems.

"We could use these federal funds to pay for a little less than half of the president's $700bn Wall Street bail out," he said.

Roughead said the slowdown in the US economy had already begun having an impact on the Navy's work force, he said. For instance, the Navy needed $390m in extra funds to pay the salaries of people it had expected to retire, but who had opted to stay in the Navy given the sluggish economy.

As defence budgets come under increasing pressure, all military services would face tough choices about big weapons programmes, Roughead said.

"Every service is going to have to look at large, expensive weapons programmes and decide, if they are appropriate to the future," he said, citing mounting pressure to make procurement more efficient and effective.

The Navy recently said it would truncate its new DDG-1000 destroyer programme after just three ships, rather than build all seven ships that were initially planned. Northrop Grumman and General Dynamics were sharing the work on that programme.

Roughead said that decision came after it became clear that the capabilities of the new ship were not well suited for future wars, but affordability was also a big issue.

The Navy will buy eight additional DDG-51 destroyers, also built by Northrop and General Dynamics, instead of the new DDG-1000 warships. Each of the first two DDG-1000 ships are expected to cost $3.2bn, while the first of the new batch of DDG-51 warships will cost about $2.2bn each, with the price dropping to $1.8bn in later years.

Michael Sullivan, director of acquisition for the GAO, told lawmakers that all too often the military services overpromised capabilities and underestimated costs to capture the funding needed to start new weapons programmes. Contractors were encouraged to underbid programmes, and adjust costs later.

"It is clear that DoD's implied definition of success is to attract funds for new programmes and to keep funds for ongoing programmes, no matter what the impact," Sullivan said, and no meaningful reform was possible until that dynamic was changed.

James Finley, deputy undersecretary of defense for acquisition, denied the system was 'broken' and said the administration had already implemented many reforms to improve the acquisition process, and had a plan for continuing the hard work that still needed to be done.

By Andrea Shalal-Esa, Reuters.


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Big Arms Programme Protection
As billions are spent on the economy, Jim Wolf, Reuters, sees how much is left to keep major weapons programmes alive.

Date: 24 Oct 2008
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The US armed services are manoeuvring to defend big-ticket weapon programmes as the nation's economic woes mount and the government spends billions of dollars shoring up the financial system.
"The US armed services are manoeuvring to defend big-ticket weapon programmes."

Experts say the services have a good chance of succeeding, to the benefit of contractors such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics and Raytheon.

To the extent there is budget pressure on the biggest programmes, they are likely to be stretched out or scaled back slightly rather than scrapped, several experts say. "It's very rare for programmes to be actually cancelled," says Steven Kosiak, vice president for budget studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

Even such controversial efforts as missile defence, which has been receiving about $10bn annually in recent years, was pruned by 3% this year by lawmakers – a measure of bipartisan support.

The air force is seeking the abrupt retirement of 314 F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft and nine A-10 close-air support planes to save $3.4bn in fiscal 2010, which begins 1 October 2009. Its goal is to use the money to keep Lockheed's next-generation
F-35 joint strike fighter on track, modernise bombers and buy unmanned surveillance planes.

In addition, air force officials have made it clear that they hope to extend production of Lockheed's radar-evading F-22 air superiority fighter – a decision for a new president who will take office in January after the 4 November election.

And less than 24 hours after cancelling a projected $6.2bn deal with Textron's Bell helicopter unit due to cost overruns and delays, the army said it would stage a new competition as soon as possible. The army said a new fleet of 512 reconnaissance and attack helicopters remained a 'critical requirement'.

Political support

"Big weapons programmes generate so many jobs that they spawn potent political constituencies," says Loren Thompson, a defence industry consultant. "Weapons programmes will be fiercely defended."

The army is also seeking to protect its $160bn future combat systems programme, the centerpiece of its modernisation efforts. The programme is co-managed by Boeing and SAIC.

"We're 100% behind it, and we'll make it a priority in all of our budgeting going forward," Army Secretary Pete Geren told reporters earlier this month, days after a $700bn financial rescue package was signed into law.

Not all defence-industry watchers believe military spending can be largely immune to the sputtering economy. James McAleese, a McLean, Virginia, government contracts lawyer, cites the army helicopter cancellation as signalling the start of leaner times for the defence industry. "This vote of no-confidence is an obvious wake-up call for the rest of the defence community for at least the next four years," he says.

Spending patterns

The Bush administration has projected that defence spending, adjusted for inflation, will flatten and gradually decline starting in 2010, after peaking in fiscal 2009 that began 1 October.

Defence spending has risen four or five percentage points above the inflation rate over the past eight years.
"Big weapons programmes generate so many jobs that they spawn potent political constituencies."

Congress authorised $612.5bn for national security in fiscal 2009, including $542.5bn for the basic defence budget and a $70bn allowance for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thompson says demand for fighter aircraft, ships, tanks and other multibillion-dollar weapons systems is driven mainly by overseas threats and domestic politics, not economic forces. Pentagon efforts to kill programmes have often been defeated by congress. Lawmakers kept alive a second engine for the F-35 fighter and the navy's next-generation destroyer programme in 2008.

David Berteau, a defence industry analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former Pentagon acquisition official, says the big programmes are based on 'fundamentally sound requirements'. If they were not funded, the military would have to spend large sums to upgrade aging systems or abandon missions, "and we're not going to do that," he says.

Jacques Gansler, the chief weapons buyer from 1997 to 2001 who still advises the Pentagon on many issues, predicts the sums being spent on national security will not have a 'precipitous decline'.
 
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