J-XY/J-35 carrier-borne fighter thread

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
11.5t empty weight is nigh impossible for a jet that size, keep in mind that the FC-31 1.0 (a jet smaller in size and not navalized) has a claimed empty weight of 12.5t, I just don't see SAC able to shed off a full ton on top of everything they did.
If J-XY is to be about 30t in max take-off weight, then it's almost impossible to have an empty weight of 11.5t, or even 12.5t.

Think about this:
AircraftTypeEmptyWeightMaxTakeOffWeightMTOW/EW
F-2219.7381.93
F-35C15.731.82.03
J-2017352.06
Su-5718351.94
J-1517.532.51.86
J-109.819.31.97
Rafael M10.624.52.31
Typhoon1123.52.14
F-18E/F14.629.92.05
J-XY11.5302.61

2.61 is an incredible ratio.

This number means that with the same materials by which the aircraft was made of, it could have 30% more payloads than other fighter aircrafts.
 

SAC

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
If J-XY is to be about 30t in max take-off weight, then it's almost impossible to have an empty weight of 11.5t, or even 12.5t.

Think about this:
AircraftTypeEmptyWeightMaxTakeOffWeightMTOW/EW
F-2219.7381.93
F-35C15.731.82.03
J-2017352.06
Su-5718351.94
J-1517.532.51.86
J-109.819.31.97
Rafael M10.624.52.31
Typhoon1123.52.14
F-18E/F14.629.92.05
J-XY11.5302.61

2.61 is an incredible ratio.

This number means that with the same materials by which the aircraft was made of, it could have 30% more payloads than other fighter aircrafts.
I am not saying your figures are incorrect, but can I ask what your source is for these figures? Thank you.
 

Schwerter_

Junior Member
Registered Member
If J-XY is to be about 30t in max take-off weight, then it's almost impossible to have an empty weight of 11.5t, or even 12.5t.

Think about this:
AircraftTypeEmptyWeightMaxTakeOffWeightMTOW/EW
F-2219.7381.93
F-35C15.731.82.03
J-2017352.06
Su-5718351.94
J-1517.532.51.86
J-109.819.31.97
Rafael M10.624.52.31
Typhoon1123.52.14
F-18E/F14.629.92.05
J-XY11.5302.61

2.61 is an incredible ratio.

This number means that with the same materials by which the aircraft was made of, it could have 30% more payloads than other fighter aircrafts.
Well 12.5t is the figure given for ver 1.0 with a mtow of around 25t if I’m not very much mistaken.

as for J-xy, yeah it’s basically impossible
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
2.61 is an incredible ratio.

This number means that with the same materials by which the aircraft was made of, it could have 30% more payloads than other fighter aircrafts.
All the more for the deck-based aircraft.
We're talking about a plane that is supposed to do controlled crash landings throughout its whole career.

Land-based J-31 may probably weigh so much, no problem(mig-29 - sized aircraft with a larger and much bulkier airframe, but with wide use of composite materials). Carrier-based J-XY on the other hand... don't think numbers below 14-15t are likely.
 

SAC

Junior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Firstly, the following was my initial thinking in January and October of 2021. Nothing official or concrete! All were based on: experience with operating a carrier aircraft the size of the J-15; developing an aircraft based on the FC-31; the assessed (at the time) size of Carrier 003's lifts;

Key features of the PLAN’s stealth fighter will likely include significant internal fuel capacity, large wing area, good wing folding reduction (note how well the J-15 “folds”), and internal weapons storage of at least 4 x AAM or 2 x AAM and 2 x land attack weapons. If based on the F/C-31, it is likely the new aircraft will have a larger wing area (and greater span) and possibly slightly longer fuselage. However, the PLAN will not want the aircraft to be too large due to the impact on hangar storage and deck operations, something they have learned from operating the J-15 and which will likely remain a key platform for the CATOBAR carriers. The new aircraft will likely have larger physical dimensions than the F-35C but smaller than the F-18E.

Recent photos suggest a bulkier fuselage aft of the cockpit, providing additional space for fuel or avionics. It is still difficult to determine the wingspan and folded wind area or internal weapons bay from the latest photos.

Based on an evolution from the FC-31, and a rough estimate of the aircraft elevator dimensions of carrier 003, it is possible that the new Navy Stealth Fight has broadly the following dimensions:

Length: 17.5M (previous version's assessed length of 17.3M)
Wingspan: 13M (unsupported assessment)
Folded: 9M (unsupported assessment)
Empty Weight: 16000kg (unsupported assessment)
Max Weight: 30000kg (unsupported assessment)
Powerplant: 2 x 95Kn (based on anecdotal evidence of WS-13E)
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well 12.5t is the figure given for ver 1.0 with a mtow of around 25t if I’m not very much mistaken.

as for J-xy, yeah it’s basically impossible
for RD-93, the max thrust without afterburner is 50kNf@75 kg/(kN·h), and 84kNf@188kg/(kN·h) fuel consumption rate

That means a 2250kg/h fuel consumption for each engine at full thrust. For twin-engine J-XY it's a doubled 4.5t fuel/h.

Let's assume the engines consuming would be average 80% of max fuel consumption rate during an operation, then it's 3.6t fuel consumption per hour.

Suppose the combat range is 1000km with a 20 minutes stay at the battle field, then a standard operation would take an about 2.5h interval. Then the total fuel consumption would be 9 tons.

With 12.5t empty weight and 25t MTOW and 9t fuel consumption/2.5h operation, the J-XY would have 25-12.5-9=3.5t max payload left, with the weight of the pilot and necessary redundant fuel included.

This is not a very impressive number.
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
Firstly, the following was my initial thinking in January and October of 2021. Nothing official or concrete! All were based on: experience with operating a carrier aircraft the size of the J-15; developing an aircraft based on the FC-31; the assessed (at the time) size of Carrier 003's lifts;

Key features of the PLAN’s stealth fighter will likely include significant internal fuel capacity, large wing area, good wing folding reduction (note how well the J-15 “folds”), and internal weapons storage of at least 4 x AAM or 2 x AAM and 2 x land attack weapons. If based on the F/C-31, it is likely the new aircraft will have a larger wing area (and greater span) and possibly slightly longer fuselage. However, the PLAN will not want the aircraft to be too large due to the impact on hangar storage and deck operations, something they have learned from operating the J-15 and which will likely remain a key platform for the CATOBAR carriers. The new aircraft will likely have larger physical dimensions than the F-35C but smaller than the F-18E.

Recent photos suggest a bulkier fuselage aft of the cockpit, providing additional space for fuel or avionics. It is still difficult to determine the wingspan and folded wind area or internal weapons bay from the latest photos.

Based on an evolution from the FC-31, and a rough estimate of the aircraft elevator dimensions of carrier 003, it is possible that the new Navy Stealth Fight has broadly the following dimensions:

Length: 17.5M (previous version's assessed length of 17.3M)
Wingspan: 13M (unsupported assessment)
Folded: 9M (unsupported assessment)
Empty Weight: 16000kg (unsupported assessment)
Max Weight: 30000kg (unsupported assessment)
Powerplant: 2 x 95Kn (based on anecdotal evidence of WS-13E)
If it would be16t EW and 30t MTOW with 2 x 95kN thrust engines, then let's suppose the engines have the same fuel consumption rate as the RD-93 but with 1t higher thrust.

In this case the aircraft would still burn 9t fuel during a 2.5h operation flight.

Then with 15 minutes reserved fuel the plane would have a max 4t payload left, with the weight of the pilot counted.
 

manatee988

New Member
Registered Member
Firstly, the following was my initial thinking in January and October of 2021. Nothing official or concrete! All were based on: experience with operating a carrier aircraft the size of the J-15; developing an aircraft based on the FC-31; the assessed (at the time) size of Carrier 003's lifts;

Key features of the PLAN’s stealth fighter will likely include significant internal fuel capacity, large wing area, good wing folding reduction (note how well the J-15 “folds”), and internal weapons storage of at least 4 x AAM or 2 x AAM and 2 x land attack weapons. If based on the F/C-31, it is likely the new aircraft will have a larger wing area (and greater span) and possibly slightly longer fuselage. However, the PLAN will not want the aircraft to be too large due to the impact on hangar storage and deck operations, something they have learned from operating the J-15 and which will likely remain a key platform for the CATOBAR carriers. The new aircraft will likely have larger physical dimensions than the F-35C but smaller than the F-18E.

Recent photos suggest a bulkier fuselage aft of the cockpit, providing additional space for fuel or avionics. It is still difficult to determine the wingspan and folded wind area or internal weapons bay from the latest photos.

Based on an evolution from the FC-31, and a rough estimate of the aircraft elevator dimensions of carrier 003, it is possible that the new Navy Stealth Fight has broadly the following dimensions:

Length: 17.5M (previous version's assessed length of 17.3M)
Wingspan: 13M (unsupported assessment)
Folded: 9M (unsupported assessment)
Empty Weight: 16000kg (unsupported assessment)
Max Weight: 30000kg (unsupported assessment)
Powerplant: 2 x 95Kn (based on anecdotal evidence of WS-13E)
I'm not an expert on aeronautical engineering. Can anyone explain why they would put an low powered engine in the FC-31? Why not the WS-10 or something? Is it size or fuel consumption or something else?
 

GTI

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not an expert on aeronautical engineering. Can anyone explain why they would put an low powered engine in the FC-31? Why not the WS-10 or something? Is it size or fuel consumption or something else?
FC-31 is not a large heavyweight fighter, it’s medium sized. WS-10 is a larger engine, and in a twin engine configuration would be for a large fighter. For example, the medium-weight J-10C uses a single WS-10B.

Hopefully someone on the forum can recommend some good books/materials for you to read to further your understanding of military aviation?
 
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