095 the soon-to-be surfaced nuke attack sub

lilzz

Banned Idiot
U.S. Navy strategic experts Gates recently claimed that China's naval service 093 new attack submarine design and appearance of influence by the United States, speaking from the noise has reached the U.S. Navy's Los Angeles-class level (estimated at 110 dB) than Virginia and Seawolf-class There are still gaps, but its equipment has been the same as the Seawolf class, including TAC (drag Yi sonar), flank sonar (lateral sonar vessels) and sail sonar (Wai shell sonar navigation), the complex sonar system, Launch YJ-83, JY-62 submarine-launched anti-ship missiles, such as Y-6 and heavy torpedoes, using the latest high-temperature gas-cooled nuclear reactor with very high speed, including Japan, the United States and its allies .

In fact 093 class submarines built only five less than the original projected.
Chinese military set their sights on another level even more powerful attack submarines. According to reliable information that the latest attacks-095 nuclear submarine in the design of the end of March 2007, is now into the construction of three. On the basis of the 093, 095 will further reduce the noise to the ocean background noise level (close to 90 dB) is very difficult to detect, and the submarine's weapons will be more powerful! The new submarines of the U.S. Pacific Fleet,will face a huge threat. Compared to 095 attack submarines, allies Japan and equipment Several of the 10 conventional submarines will be difficult to detect, it will break the Western Pacific military balance. Therefore the construction of this type of submarine is the purpose of being questioned, China should immediately stop this irresponsible act!

The West in general speculation, 095 attack submarines will use all the latest noise reduction measures. In view of China's Shenyang Machine Tool Plant in precision machine tool on the first-class technology, as early as the Song-class submarine on the propeller blades began to use 7 propulsion system, as the 095 will no doubt be used to update the pump-pushing technology. In weapons and equipment, the 095 is advancing by leaps and bounds, in addition equipped with more advanced YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missiles and heavy CY-3 anti-submarine missiles, will also have vertical launch system, capable of launching DH ( "East Sea") Improved On submarine-launched land-to-ship cruise missiles, and such missiles can reach 2,000 km range, depth against the enemy's goal.

by Western propaganda, the Japanese navy's equipment by conventional submarines the face of China's latest-095 attack submarines will no Huanshou's influence. The noise level, will reach 095 by the pursuit of the ultimate submarine, and has complicated than conventional submarines and more powerful sonar systems, the enemy could be found to enemy fire. 095 of the latest launch-CY-3 ( "Changying") anti-submarine missiles, with CY-2 compared to the 85 kilometer ( "Jane's" data) beyond the range, CY-3 missiles will continue to adopt the "Eagle-" anti-ship The cruise missiles and missile warheads for anti-submarine torpedoes. Faced with long-range anti-submarine missile attack, even the Japanese navy's most modern conventional submarines AIP there is no hope that survivors, the only engine used AIP District 3 speed relative to the head came from the anti-submarine missile is a stationary target, even at this time able to turn For the full-power driver is still not escape Yijie. 095 and the ultra-high speed, and mobility, but also makes torpedo and other weapons it is very difficult match. And the next 095 attack submarines will also take up far under the Indian Ocean to defend China's sea lines of the important mission of the Chinese navy's "killer reach."
 

montyp165

Senior Member
At this point any news on the 095 is just speculative talk, there haven't even been any models of it seen, so it's all hearsay until something definitive appears.
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
It's more than speculative talk. Opponents already acknowledge its existence.
================Chinese fast developing advanced submarines

By Ta-chen Cheng 鄭大城

Wednesday, Dec 06, 2006, Page 8
China could have its first aircraft carrier battle group composed of 11 warships in place by 2020, a high-ranking official from the Ministry of National Defense told a recent symposium hosted by the Institute for Taiwan Defense and Strategic Studies to discuss the purchase of diesel-electric submarines. His remark is probably an understatement and the ministry has seriously underestimated China's capability to develop and deploy submarines.

The ministry estimated that China will have two Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarines in this planned aircraft carrier battle group. Named the "Shang-class" by NATO, Type 093 is a refined model of the Russian Victor-III class and an engineering project complementary to the construction of China's Type 094 Jin-class nuclear-powered guided ballistic missile submarines. Deploying two nuclear-powered attack submarines in a middle-sized aircraft carrier battle group is adequate.

Over the past decade, China's submarine technology has made huge progress. In addition to its highly developed Type 093, Bei-jing may have more advanced nuclear-powered attack submarines, possibly Type 095, by 2020.

International media reports indicate that China may have completed the design of Type 095 and initiated the first phase of construction. Some believe the hull of Type 095 has been given a Western rather than a Russian design and that the underwater noise level of the engines has been reduced.

The Type 095 may also dopt the sophisticated HY-4 cruise missile with a range of 3,000km. If this type of missile carries a nuclear warhead, it can destroy up to 2km2 of any targeted area.

China is planning to build five Type 095 submarines. If the Type 095 can join its aircraft carrier battle group by 2020, its overall combat capabilities will easily exceed those of Type 093.

The ministry's projection of the make-up of China's aircraft carrier battle group also ignores the great technological progress China has made in building diesel-electric submarines in recent years. After Russia delivered the second batch of eight Russian Kilo-class Type 636 attack submarines to Beijing, China's diesel-electric submarine technology has improved considerably through imitation or technology transfer.

According to a foreign news report, China's Ming-class submarines have begun testing the installation of an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system that operates on liquid oxyhydrogen cells. Moreover, China's navy continues to improve its Type 039 Song-class submarine, which was recently found stalking the USS Kitty Hawk near Okinawa.

In future, all Song-class submarines are likely to be equipped with the AIP system and China will take the initiative to acquire new weapons systems from Russia, including supersonic anti-ship missiles, land-attack cruise missiles, wake-homing torpedoes and supercavitating torpedoes.

Prior to 2020 then, China's fleet of diesel-electric submarines will have become an underwater threat that nations in the Asia-Pacific region cannot ignore. That would constitute a structural change to the the strategic security of both the Taiwan Strait and the first island chain. Such a strategic alteration would put tremendous pressure on Taiwan.

Taiwan's defense capabilities will be unable to deal with these changes single-handedly and the nation cannot simply pin its hopes on the acquisition of a few diesel-electric submarines.

As the most vulnerable and strategically most important link in the first island chain, Taiwan should seek to improve its defense capabilities and strengthen military cooperation with both the US and Japan to deter China's expansionist ambitions.


Ta-chen Cheng is an adjunct assistant professor at Tamkang University.
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Calculating the build rate at Huludao, this would put 4 Type 095s in the water by 2010, which is what is also being stated by sources on China bbs, by which time the Type 096 would be under construction.


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montyp165

Senior Member
Again, opponents saying something means nothing, especially when it's used to push political and military agendas of their own. Until there is definite information from PRC production centers or government it is just a rumor and nothing more.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Until we actually see the Type 095 SSN, Type 096 SSBN, Q-6 attacker, etc., it's just vaporware.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Lilzz, I don't want to sound belittling or anything but both articles you posted are full of BS that I don't know where to begin refuting them. You can begin with all the CY and HY missiles mentioned.
 

flyzies

Junior Member
It is true that China is working on an improvement of 093, but there is simple no information available on this 095. So whatever we hear about it's performance, sonar, weapons, noise level etc etc are all speculation.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
An improvement of the 093 can also be from an 093G to an 093A before you can call it an 095. Note that the Yuan, which has a different hull appearance from the Song, isn't given a new number, but an 039A from the Song (039, 039G).

Hypothetically, programs for improving the 093 can run simultaneously and in parallel with an all new sub development, none of these programs are exclusive of each other.
 

PrOeLiTeZ

Junior Member
Registered Member
4 Type095 before 2010 load of BS....this sound like an article to cause fear and beef up their own military spending and acquisation to counter this imaginary threat....they're is sufficient information from mainland china that derivatives or improvements of Type093/094 are underway but completly new project with 4 built by 2010....makes you wonder its just some fantasy writer
 

man overbored

Junior Member
Quite a few problems with this one. Lets begin:

"U.S. Navy strategic experts Gates "

Meaning Defense Secretary Gates??? Does the author know the difference?

"sophisticated HY-4 cruise missile with a range of 3,000km. If this type of missile carries a nuclear warhead, it can destroy up to 2km2 of any targeted area."

HY-4 is a shore launched turbojet cruise missile with a 150km range and a 500kg warhead. It is big, slow and short ranged.

"On submarine-launched land-to-ship cruise missiles, and such missiles can reach 2,000 km range, depth against the enemy's goal."

What system is the author referring to with this 2000km range?

"On the basis of the 093, 095 will further reduce the noise to the ocean background noise level (close to 90 dB) is very difficult to detect" and " speaking from the noise has reached the U.S. Navy's Los Angeles-class level (estimated at 110 dB) than Virginia and Seawolf-class"

Now the last one is interesting technically. The author claims a 90db noise level is quiet ( I disagree, even an Akula is probably quieter and a Virginia even moreso ) then mentions that an LA class SSN has a 110db noise level. Lets look at that. The way the USN measures sound levels varies greatly from Russian practice. Both measure how a sound varies from a specified level at a fixed distance. The Russians use one meter, they USN one yard which is about .91 something meters. Not significant. What is significant is the basis for comparison. The Russians compare the intensity of the sound emitted to what they consider ambient noise. The USN compares the sound intensity at one yard to the intensity of the original sound at it's point of origin. These are very different standards and typically lead to a 25-27 db difference in these measurements for the identical sound pressure. Which measure is the author using? Is this an apples to oranges comparison. Also lets look at the age of the LA class. The first boat was commissioned in 1976, the next few in 1977 and these were decommissioned in 1995/6. The last of the LA's, called the 688I class for Improved, was commissioned in 1996, a year after the first boat of the class was sticken from service. Does the 110db rating refer to an early boat of the class? If so that would be a darn good performance, less noise than any Russian boomer or any Kilo on batteries. It is said in the USN today that a Virginia at 20kts emits about as much noise as an LA at the pier with it's reactor plant on line ( pump noise primarily ).

I could go on.....
 
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