Ukrainian War Developments

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Maikeru

Major
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Yeah. it's kind of ridiculous if one look at it, especially if Article 5 is brought in.

Since article 5 clearly states that attack on 1 NATO allies means attack on all NATO allies including the US. it's esentially a WWIII Anyway Which Putin may not want to risk, thus logically Poland can just give the MiG's directly to Ukraine.

Giving it to US means stalled delivery, like, who knows what bureaucratic snags or inspections they would do, and Ukraine kinda need an airforce quick. Unless Poland doesn't really believe article 5 and NATO will protect them.
Or perhaps US will install new electronic equipment on the jets before they are transferred?

Some of the kit the Russians are using is absolutely state of the art:


Of course we shouldn't laugh too hard because the biggest single arms supplier to the Ukrainian Army since the war began is in fact Russia.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Yeah. it's kind of ridiculous if one look at it, especially if Article 5 is brought in.

Since article 5 clearly states that attack on 1 NATO allies means attack on all NATO allies including the US. it's esentially a WWIII Anyway Which Putin may not want to risk, thus logically Poland can just give the MiG's directly to Ukraine.

Giving it to US means stalled delivery, like, who knows what bureaucratic snags or inspections they would do, and Ukraine kinda need an airforce quick. Unless Poland doesn't really believe article 5 and NATO will protect them.
Putin has already shown he's prepared to go all the way with the nuclear threat, hence why Biden backed down when these planes were supposedly an hour away from being deployed to the Ukraine.

This is just a rebellion by the smaller NATO states unhappy with the lack of American military intervention. If America is serious about starting WW3 they'd be sending in F-35s, not Warsaw Pact era Mig 29s.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Or perhaps US will install new electronic equipment on the jets before they are transferred?
Like what? Do you think a program like that can be done just like that? By the time they finished that Ukraine would be over as a state.
You might as well say you can replace Russian gas with nuclear power at that point.

Some of the kit the Russians are using is absolutely state of the art:
That is not the Russian army. Those are LPR or DPR militia.
That militia has managed to kick the much larger Ukrainian army's butt for almost 8 years.

Of course we shouldn't laugh too hard because the biggest single arms supplier to the Ukrainian Army since the war began is in fact Russia.
Good luck getting tanks with broken engine to work. There is a reason the Russians just left that broken equipment behind.
 
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ArmchairAnalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
Putin has already shown he's prepared to go all the way with the nuclear threat, hence why Biden backed down when these planes were supposedly an hour away from being deployed to the Ukraine.
Most leaders in the West (and elsewhere) aren't used to brinkmanship involving nuclear powers and has lot to learn.
Biden as a relic from the cold war and Putin with his KGB past probably got a deeper understanding than most.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
From "we will never surrender even an inch of our territory " to "we can discuss this".
Its amazing what a few days of war can do to you..

"BREAKING: Zelensky answers question about the possibility of recognizing Crimea as Russia and the republics of Donbass: “we can discuss this and find a compromise on how people will live there”

Something only ever spoken of from a position of strength when you are winning the war!
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
About the Xi, Macron and Scholz conference, here is the transcription from FM.
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An interesting part at the end

中方支持法德两国从欧洲自身利益出发,为欧洲持久安全着想,坚持战略自主,推动构建均衡、有效、可持续的欧洲安全框架。
China support France and Germany thinking from Europe's own interests, for Europe's long term peace, maintaining strategic independence, push for balanced, effective, sustainable security framework in Europe.


As always, the true meaning in diplomatic talk is always in the words that are not directly said. In China's view, Europe is not independent, is sacrificing its own interests for US to build unbalanced framework. The wording is rather a criticism than a encouragement or compliment.

中方乐见欧俄美及北约开展平等对话。
China is also willing to see Europe, Russia, US and NATO to have a equal dialog. This "也"/"also" means that it is a secondary point after the Frenco-German dialog with Russia.


From reading this, my understanding is that, China is trying to get US and NATO out of Europe or downsized. This is a condition for China to get involved.

In the mean time here is how CNN (US mouth piece) "reported" twisted the event
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Firstly, it says
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. Then after opening the article the headline changes to "Xi says China is willing to play role in mediating Ukraine crisis, in call with European leaders".

This is the usual trick of planting false claim by delarbete misleading headline. China isn't going to mediate, or play a role untill the conditions are met.

In the article, there is not a single word about China's comment about Europe's own interests, independence and balance.

This is another trick of misinformation by telling the partial truth, taking words out of perspective.
 
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