Ukrainian War Developments

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ArmchairAnalyst

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ZeEa5KPul said:
The West isn't 81.5% of the world. It's a smaller share of the world than China.

You play the game of world domination by overturning the existing world order by force. How congenial you are doesn't factor.
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You don"t need to be the West to feel threatend by an aggressive China imposing its will without finesse or even mutual understanding. Brute force alone won't get you anywhere long term and will only make more enemies along the way.

But lets agree to stop here. The difference in our views seems too wide. And we are off-topic too.
 
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Abominable

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Weaasel said:
Your view is absolutist... If Ukraine accepts this deal and provokes Russia in the future, it will be on its own...
And, Russia will be able to defeat it militarily going all out this time in the border regions. There will be no pulling punches, with the exception of nuclear weapons. Do you think that most of the Western European countries have stomach for a fight with Russia after a neutrality agreement is reached?
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Why would it be any different to the situation now?

I refer you to the failure of the Minsk agreement, which was very favourable to Ukraine given the circumstances. It would have led to the reintegration of separatist regions with limited autonomy. Anyone who's a neutral observer can see that was the only sensible peaceful resolution. Regional autonomy has been demonstrated to work in separatist conflicts all over the world. It's not perfect, but both sides get concessions and can walk away having saved face.

But no, the Ukrainians need to continue this conflict because it's the only way they stay relevant internationally.
 
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Michaelsinodef

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Richard Santos said:
There actually is a golden opportunity here for canny and skilled Chinese diplomacy to insert China semi-permanently into Europe as a major player in internal Eastern European diplomatic affairs at the other end of belt and road.

However, at the risk of offending much of the contingent here, I have to say Chinese diplomacy has been singularly inept at comprehending and adapting to the internal views, perceptions and political realities of other states, so China has little chance of being able to successful capitalize on this opportunity.
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You are basically just completely wrong here lol.

Why would China need to insert itself into Europe? Also btw, China already has some influence in Europe (some nations in the EU voting against negative laws regarding China such as Greece) and China also have influence from their economic strength as well.

Besides the above, you find that Chinese diplomacy is doing well at the world stage and UN (well outside of the western imperial core, basically US and it's allies and vassals).

Anyways this is all kinda off-topic.
 
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MortyandRick

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Richard Santos said:
There actually is a golden opportunity here for canny and skilled Chinese diplomacy to insert China semi-permanently into Europe as a major player in internal Eastern European diplomatic affairs at the other end of belt and road.

However, at the risk of offending much of the contingent here, I have to say Chinese diplomacy has been singularly inept at comprehending and adapting to the internal views, perceptions and political realities of other states, so China has little chance of being able to successful capitalize on this opportunity.
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It's a trap in my mind. American control over EU government, policy and media are to pervasive. If china accepts, they will spin it in a way to be negative too china and cause divide between Russia and China. Chinese diplomacy us actually not bad, but they don't have the control over media that the US has with its western news so it's hard to catch up. Especially with anglospere media fully on US side. Most countries had positive/neutral views of china until 2017.

Even I can see it. There will be a false flag event. Then They'll say Russia didn't hold their side of the bargin and China needs to step in to punish Russia. If china supports the Russian side, then they will blame china for acting in bad faith. Drawing EU into the anti china camp further. Etc.

Anyhow, any info on the Ukranian counter attack?
 
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Richard Santos

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Michaelsinodef said:
You are basically just completely wrong here lol.

Why would China need to insert itself into Europe? Also btw, China already has some influence in Europe (some nations in the EU voting against negative laws regarding China such as Greece) and China also have influence from their economic strength as well.

Besides the above, you find that Chinese diplomacy is doing well at the world stage and UN (well outside of the western imperial core, basically US and it's allies and vassals).

Anyways this is all kinda off-topic.
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because you want effective and subtle levers where ever you can insert them. but they are particularly valuable near major poles of economic and political power.

And hate to say it, the fact that chinese diplomacy is doing poorly inside the “western imperial core” is an indictment of sbject failure, for that is the place where sustained diplomatic success counts the most and takes the most diplomatic subtlety and skill, everywhere else the diplomacy is susceptible to crude approaches and is in itself more or less optional, only to be focused because forced to by inability to make inroad where success counts much more.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Pmichael said:
Time will tell, your assessment isn’t realistic.
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Read your next sentence to figure out who's not realistic:
Pmichael said:
Russia’s industrial base is destroyed they are going to sell half of the country to China at this point.
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This sentence, along with the claim that the Ukranians have no reason to negotiate with the Russians, are the most amazingly unrealistic things I've heard. Staying alive, basically the most basic human desire, is their reason. Actually, the reality is quite the opposite of what you imagine: Russia has no reason to compromise anything with the Ukranians because seeing NATO absolutely refuse to fight this battle, they know they have the time to devour Ukraine. The second Putin said he put his nuclear forces on alert, Biden said the no fly zone is off the table; that's pretty much cooperation LOL
Pmichael said:
Also interesting claiming Europe can’t compensate the energy prices while Russia can casually rebuilt their entire isolated economic system within a decade… interesting.
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No one with China behind them is isolated. In the end, European attempts to isolate Russia will fail on their end as well. Russia is the world's largest nation and you can't keep big nations down; you can only trip them for a bit. The defeats of large nations are temporary as are the victories of small nations. Russia is too large and energy rich for Europe to keep up the farce. Those who tried to isolate Russia must find a way to come back to Russia. It is like trying to ignore a bear that lives in same house as you... not only do you fear its strength, you need to hug its fat in the winter for warmth LOL
Pmichael said:
after all we are talking about a country that had half a decade to prepare for this war and failed completely. At least a bunch of higher ups got nice boats and houses outside of Russia.
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Failed? 1. It's not even close to over yet. 2. Russia has taken Donetsk, Luhansk, and more. Just from that, there is no failure. What did the US get out of 20 years in Iraq? A bloody ass, that's all.
 
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Anlsvrthng

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