Ukrainian War Developments

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Intrepid

Major
We know the Hiroshima bomb. It kills many people and destroys entire regions.

We've been thinking about a neutron bomb. It should kill people but do little damage to property.

Now we also know the Putin bomb, which ended in one fell swoop the confidence in an industrial region that has grown over 30 years since the end of the Warsaw Pact. It doesn't seek to kill people, but it does more damage to property than an atomic bomb ever could.



Industrial companies doing business with Russia are now at a major competitive disadvantage. The German automotive industry, for example, is currently massively shutting down production because the supply chains are interrupted. Now alternatives are being sought with the maximum possible force. Once these are found, they will persist long after the war is over.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
We know the Hiroshima bomb. It kills many people and destroys entire regions.

We've been thinking about a neutron bomb. It should kill people but do little damage to property.

Now we also know the Putin bomb, which ended in one fell swoop the confidence in an industrial region that has grown over 30 years since the end of the Warsaw Pact. It doesn't seek to kill people, but it does more damage to property than an atomic bomb ever could.



Industrial companies doing business with Russia are now at a major competitive disadvantage. The German automotive industry, for example, is currently massively shutting down production because the supply chains are interrupted. Now alternatives are being sought with the maximum possible force. Once these are found, they will persist long after the war is over.
And just imagine what could happens if the current event happens with China.

And based on the behaviour of the Russians it is just the begining.

They are very confident , still shipping gas to Europe.

For me it looks like all the current events is just the begining.

They target is to break the back of the NATO and the EU security pact.
Afterwarards to make agreement with individual couuntries.

And China observing all of these events closely.
 
The blurred image is of Stepan Bandera, who's officially honored as a Hero of Ukraine.
It's easy to demonize Бандерівці, but has anyone else here ever known one?

Before 2014, I (a speaker of Russian) had a long conversation with a Ukrainian nationalist student.
He proudly said that his grandfather was a 'general' (his word) in a Ukrainian army that had fought against the USSR.
Although he was vague about some details, I knew enough of history to know that he was referring to the OUN.
His grandfather was a follower of Stepan Bandera.

He told me that his grandfather's village in western Ukraine had welcomed the German soldiers as their 'liberators'.
The women and girls had thrown flowers and offered bread to the Germans. Every young man in the village had
volunteered to fight alongside the Germans against Stalin. That's how his grandfather's war had begun.

How did it end? My impression is that his grandfather was one of the Ukrainian nationalists who had kept fighting
the USSR even after Germany had surrendered. His grandfather could not have expected any mercy from Stalin.
Before his death, he had urged his children (including the student's parent) to keep fighting the good fight for Ukraine.
This student told me that he hoped to enter politics in Ukraine someday and live up to his grandfather's heroic legacy.

Although he and I sometimes disagreed, our conversation was amicable. My impression was that he liked me.
At that time, it was far-fetched that Russia and Ukraine would ever be at war against each other.
I don't know where he is today. If he's in Ukraine, then he presumably would be fighting against Russia.
I never thought of him as an enemy. I don't demonize him or dehumanize him. I hope that he survives.

Every war must end. In order to build a lasting peace, one should strive to have enough understanding, if not
some respect, for one's former enemies' motives.

Very interesting how history turned out. OUN originally grew out of Ukrainian resistance movements to Polish rule in the parts of Western Ukraine that had been anexxed by Poland. It was the German invasion of Ukraine that enabled the movement to spread into the rest of Ukraine and transformed into a broader Ukrainian independence movement. Eventually the Nazis, with whom the OUN initially collaborated, turned on the OUN and the organization had to eventually fight Germans, Soviets, as well as Poles for the remainder of WW2. Unfortunately, the organization got involved with a genocide of ethnic Poles living in the border regions of Ukraine and Poland to which the Nazis turned a blind eye. So for most of its history, the OUN was not an organization of freedom fighters to Soviet rule. Yet today, their common hate (arguably justified) towards Russia has drawn Poles and Ukrainians together.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
Stupid Ukro @$$, they should have made money by selling it to China instead of destroying the large Soviet legacy aircraft... just like they should not have cheated Chinese money on the Motor Sich deal.

But if they are smart enough then this tussle of war would have never occurred. Now let Russians remove some bad seeds from that land and nurture the place to be Slavic-friendly again. I have the high confidence that Russia should be able to re-educate people there! After this lesson, hopefully those lilies in the Baltic mini as well as the Nordic will better behave themselves. I feel rather tiresome to witness their exaggerated acts disproportionate with their size all this time. They are small yet the most vocal ones!
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
CNN will no longer broadcast in Russia "while we continue to evaluate the situation and our next steps moving forward," according to host Brian Stelter.

INTERFAX is reporting that a Russian watchdog says TWITTER is now BLOCKED in Russia, adding to the western social media freeze that now includes FACEBOOK and access to APP STORES.

Vladimir Putin signed several laws on Friday, 04 March 2022 -- including one which would seize the assets of foreigners if they harm Russians or otherwise infringe on Russian rights, according to Interfax.

The threat comes in parallel with another law signed on Friday which will criminalize whatever the Kremlin deems "disinformation" about the military in a crackdown on "fake information." As a result, the BBC has pulled all reporters from Moscow.

Meanwhile, Moscow has offered FOREIGN COMPANIES THREE OPTIONS for a path forward: (1) remain in Russia, (2) exit entirely, or (3) hand over their holdings to local managers.

First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov spelt out the government's position a little more than a week after Russia invaded Ukraine, and a day after FRENCH BANK SOCIETE GENERALE (SOGN.PA) sent a chill through the corporate world by saying Russian authorities COULD SEIZE ITS ASSETS in the country.

Belousov outlined three alternatives for foreign firms.

"The company continues to work fully in Russia," he said in a statement. "Foreign shareholders transfer their share to be managed by Russian partners and can return to the market later," he added, and: "The company permanently terminates operations in Russia, closes production and dismisses employees." -Reuters

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Meanwhile, Russia's communications regulator has blocked Facebook, according to Bloomberg, citing Interfax.

Facebook was banned in retaliation for its freezing of accounts of RT, Sputnik and RIA Novosti and other media, communications regulator Roskomnadzor said in a statement.

Two liberal broadcasters, Ekho Moskvy and TV Rain, went off air Thursday under pressure from prosecutors, while the websites of the BBC, Deutsche Welle (DW) and Meduza, an independent news group, weren’t accessible Friday. -Bloomberg

Some have suggested Ukraine was TRYING TO BAIT THE WEST INTO GREATER ASSISTANCE, while the Associated Press breathlessly repeated the Ukrainian reports.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Very interesting how history turned out. OUN originally grew out of Ukrainian resistance movements to Polish rule in the parts of Western Ukraine that had been anexxed by Poland. It was the German invasion of Ukraine that enabled the movement to spread into the rest of Ukraine and transformed into a broader Ukrainian independence movement. Eventually the Nazis, with whom the OUN initially collaborated, turned on the OUN and the organization had to eventually fight Germans, Soviets, as well as Poles for the remainder of WW2. Unfortunately, the organization got involved with a genocide of ethnic Poles living in the border regions of Ukraine and Poland to which the Nazis turned a blind eye. So for most of its history, the OUN was not an organization of freedom fighters to Soviet rule. Yet today, their common hate (arguably justified) towards Russia has drawn Poles and Ukrainians together.
The Poles, Russians, and Ukrainians have a deep history of conflicts with one another.
Western media now ignores or downplays the long bitter conflicts between the Poles and Ukrainians.

Interwar Poland (1919-1939) is greatly idealized by Polish nationalists. But even Norman Davies (a British historian
who's a fanatical supporter of Polish nationalism) has conceded that Poland 'brutally pacified' its Ukrainian minority.
When Germany (and Slovakia) invaded Poland in 1939, a unit of Ukrainians (exiled from Poland) marched with the
Germans in order to help 'liberate' Poland's Ukrainian minority. When Polish soldiers desperately attempted to flee
to friendly Romania, they often clashed with Ukrainian communities along the way. There are accounts of Polish
stragglers being waylaid and killed by Ukrainians, and vengeful Polish soldiers then massacring Ukrainian villages.

I read a story where Polish soldiers came across a Polish cavalry officer who apparently had been killed by being tied
to two horses, which were then driven in opposite directions so his body was torn apart. The Poles then killed everyone
(including unarmed civilians) whom they could catch in the nearest ethnic Ukrainian village. That news spread quickly.
Retreating toward Romania, Polish soldiers then came across 'empty' ethnic Ukrainian villages because everyone had fled
into hiding, fearing the soldiers of their own country as much as they would fear any foreign invader.

Ukrainian nationalism may be traced back to the Khmelnytsky Uprising (1648-57) against the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

"The uprising has a symbolic meaning in the history of
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's relationship with Poland and
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. It ended the Polish Catholic
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′s domination over the
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population; at the same time, it led to the eventual incorporation of
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into the
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initiated by the 1654
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, whereby the Cossacks would swear allegiance
to the
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while retaining a wide autonomy."
--Wikipedia

The novel _Taras Bulba_ by Gogol describes the passionate hate between the Orthodox Cossacks and the Catholic Poles.

"For several years after the
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ended, the Ukrainian Nationalist insurgency, led mainly by the
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, continued fighting in the South-East of
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. This war, largely supported by the local Ukrainian part of the
population, continued until 1949, with some sporadic fights taking place as late as 1956."
--Wikipedia

In 1947, Poland (with Soviet approval) conducted 'ethnic cleansing' of its Ukrainian minority in order to deprive the
Ukrainian nationalist guerrilla army of its base of sympathizers and potential recruits.

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"In 2007 the presidents of Poland (
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) and Ukraine (
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) condemned the operation as a
violation of
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."

Polish, Russian, and Ukrainian nationalists like to claim that their own people always behaved like angels but were
cruelly wronged by the other two peoples. In reality, wrongdoing was broadly distributed among all three peoples.
 
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