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supersnoop

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Myanmar the new front as U.S.-China tensions simmer on land​

As tensions between China and the United States keep rising, 2022 could see a new front open along China's 2,000-kilometer border with Myanmar.

Unlike the risky but manageable naval maneuvering in the contested South China Sea, the sparring on land is likely to assume the form of difficult to rein in proxy conflicts with consequences for the wider region.

After progressively extending its influence into mainland Southeast Asia over the past two decades mainly via infrastructure investment, Beijing has more recently intervened in Myanmar's complex array of ethnic conflicts, conducted joint patrols along the Mekong River and, most controversially, is now said to be
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in Cambodia.

In response, the U.S. has aggressively retooled the pivot to Asia initiated during the Obama administration, with Congress recently approving $7 billion in defense spending for the region, mostly focused on the U.S. Navy.

But over the past year, Washington has been working feverishly to establish closer ties with mainland states, particularly Thailand, a treaty ally, with no fewer than six senior officials visiting Bangkok since July.

Containing China on land, however, is proving a lot harder than moving naval assets around the South China Sea, with the U.S. forced to draw from its Cold War playbook by blending humanitarian aid with strategic military assistance.

When senior U.S. State Department official Derek Chollet went to Bangkok in October, his request to open a humanitarian corridor across the Thai border into Myanmar seemed like a useful way to address the humanitarian needs generated by the increased fighting there. But the proposal included a significant rider that the corridor be serviced by U.S. aid agencies.

To veterans of the last Cold War, this was reminiscent of U.S. operations along the Thai-Cambodian border in the 1980s, when nonlethal assistance was allegedly provided to non-Communist elements fighting the Khmer Rouge.

After Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai hurriedly agreed to the U.S. request, other Thai officials were less certain, suggesting that it was only a "concept for further discussion." Thailand, ever wary of upsetting China, may prefer that humanitarian assistance into Myanmar be handled by a broad range of countries and agencies.

China, for its part, has not stood idly by. Fighting in northern Shan State over who controls lucrative narcotics trade routes close to the Chinese border has intensified with the Shan State Progress Party and Ta'ang National Liberation Army, which are intent on pushing the Restoration Council for Shan State (RCSS), back toward its traditional domain near the Thai border, receiving assistance in the form of Chinese weaponry and soldiers from the China-backed United Wa State Army.

As to why China has lent indirect support to their enemies, RCSS sources worry that they are seen as a potential proxy for U.S. efforts to counter China's influence in Myanmar.

Historically, the RCSS was close to the remnants of the Kuomintang Nationalist Chinese army that fled into Thailand and Burma, as Myanmar was then known, in 1949 -- remnants that Beijing doubtless recalls the U.S. supporting through the 1960s under the guise of development aid to Burma. More recently, China has protested to Myanmar authorities whenever U.S. officials traveled north of Shan State, suggesting a notional boundary between U.S. and Chinese zones of influence.

History has not repeated itself yet, but ethnic armed group leaders based in Thailand are worried that China and the U.S. may be tempted to use the escalating conflict in Myanmar as a convenient proving ground for power and influence over the rest of Southeast Asia.

They point to a diplomatic tussle between China and Thailand over the construction of the new $300 million U.S. consulate in Chiang Mai, which Beijing sees as an attempt to reinforce existing U.S. intelligence gathering capacity in northern Thailand, less than 500 km from the Chinese border.

Meanwhile, trading carrots for sticks, the U.S. has
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for allegedly allowing China to build a naval base at Ream. The evidence for this is based on reports of land clearance and renovation of a facility previously built by the U.S. Cambodia denies that China is building a base, though a much larger deep-water port and 1500-meter runways are currently being built by a Chinese contractor further west at Butom Sakor, allegedly for Chinese tourists.

Without a doubt, China is extending its hard-power capacity and influence across the Mekong subregion. Reports from diplomatic sources in Thailand indicate that China initiated more than 100 joint patrols with law enforcement from Laos, Cambodia and Thailand along the Mekong in the past year. And both China and the U.S. are competing to provide COVID-19 vaccinations and other humanitarian needs in the region.

These developments at the sharp end of a new Cold War on mainland Southeast Asia are a worry because they could complicate and prolong the already complex array of conflicts in Myanmar that is already long suspicious of both China and the U.S. for precisely this reason.
as the human cost of the Feb. 1 military takeover in Myanmar continues to mount, regional states may be tempted to welcome Chinese or U.S. intervention, as was the case in Cambodia almost half a century ago.

To prevent an escalating confrontation between the U.S. and China, it is more important than ever for Southeast Asian nations to step up efforts to address the conflict in Myanmar. The apparent failure of ASEAN's diplomatic engagement with the Myanmar military after the takeover presents opportunities for bigger powers such as India to step in.
Ultimately, the viability of a mainland front in the contest for geopolitical primacy comes down to economics. In the last Cold War, Washington was preeminent in a region that depended on U.S. aid and investment. Today the shoe is on the other foot: China has a commanding lead when it comes to trade and investment over any other power, with the added advantage of contiguous geography.

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When I saw that the consulate cost 300 million I thought it sounded fishy… but then you find out that the US government is spending 1 billion to build an embassy in London, 1 billion in Mexico, 1 billion in Kabul (now worthless), and then you just feel bad.

This reads like an awful wannabe Rudyard Kipling work. I bid the USA good luck in trying to colonize Shan state. United Wa State Army mentioned in the article is speaking Chinese, using Chinese weapons like T97, using RMB as currency. Also mentioned was the RCSS, whose predecessor was the Mong Tai army of Drug lord Khun Sa who was Chinese. Khun Sa was famous for building Chinese schools with his drug money. With China’s economy on the rise, the Chinese schools are more and more popular. What impetus does China have to intervene when they already won? They mentioned Cambodia as a case of international intervention. No, that was a case of classical US imperialism, dropping bombs indiscriminately on a country and hope your puppet leader can hold it together (which Lon Nol could not)
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Pretty much, except there was and still is corruption within. An "ideological" corruption as well as in the more conventional sense. Maybe not certain individuals but surely some parts and corners however small.

Xi I do not know is truly the savior of the party and the nation as presented. Sure previous leaders were not given those titles or claims of purpose but each man performed a duty that was required of them in the phase of the overarching program - to restore dignity to the Chinese nation and people. This includes all the forms it can manifest and it is intentionally difficult to define. What it boils down to is really understanding a path and creating the environment to tread the path, making sure it stays on path. That is all and it cannot really be said for certain (by us) whether Xi and his predecessors truly embodied those roles and if any of them as individuals have been performing duties with incorruptible resolve.

What we can do is observe and measure. They have been doing very well. Exceedingly well and right for the people and nation. The rest is personal conjecture, speculation, conspiracy, and propaganda.
You don't have to 100% root out corruption. You just have to outlast the other side. See, you can't promote corruption externally while being clean internally. Just doesn't work that way. The hope is that with a first mover advantage you are affected less, the other side collapses first, and your corrupt guys win.

But if the other side simply outlasts you and is slightly less corrupt, then your own corruption starts eating your society from within. People no longer trust facts. The propaganda pushers start drinking their own Kool aid. Copium use skyrockets. People are no longer able to make rational decisions and won't check themselves before they wreck themselves.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The United States is able to control the terms of debate on every and any country
that is a slave to the false concepts of Western "democracy" and "freedom." Against China, they get the Alaska treatment so bad they turn on their own translator for having purple hair LOL

PS. I appreciate how you used no period at the end like you knew I was going to correct it by completing the sentence ;)
 
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victoon

Junior Member
Registered Member
yes every country has idiots and every political systems has faults. But today it just happens that China has enough meritocracy and the US has enough idiocracy. 国运, really. I sometimes listen to old US presidential debates and wondered what the pre-twitter and pre-facebook America was like.

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SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Pretty much, except there was and still is corruption within. An "ideological" corruption as well as in the more conventional sense. Maybe not certain individuals but surely some parts and corners however small.

Xi I do not know is truly the savior of the party and the nation as presented. Sure previous leaders were not given those titles or claims of purpose but each man performed a duty that was required of them in the phase of the overarching program - to restore dignity to the Chinese nation and people. This includes all the forms it can manifest and it is intentionally difficult to define. What it boils down to is really understanding a path and creating the environment to tread the path, making sure it stays on path. That is all and it cannot really be said for certain (by us) whether Xi and his predecessors truly embodied those roles and if any of them as individuals have been performing duties with incorruptible resolve.

What we can do is observe and measure. They have been doing very well. Exceedingly well and right for the people and nation. The rest is personal conjecture, speculation, conspiracy, and propaganda.

I think its difficult to compare leaders as they had very different jobs to do. Hu and Xiang were there to oversee a rapid build up of Wealth and Power and were not overly concerned by how it was achieved. Xi however is installed to oversee the perilous process of overtaking the USA as the worlds primary economy (and by extension power). The keys words to this are steadyness, stability and resilience and many of the measures we now see in the Chinese economy have the hallmarks of building resilience all over them.
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
I've seen numerous communist parties publish news articles (KKE, KPRF, etc) supporting these protests. Where are these parties getting their information from and how can they be so sure it's not another Maidan? I'd like to get my news from the same place they are getting it from.
Possibly they have inter-party connections with underground Kazakh Communists. No one can assure that the situation in not going to be an other Maidan because of reactionary elements, but the the participation of organized workers in the protests and their demands must be pointed out. Otherwise any uprisings in the future would be just labeled as a "coup attempt" and suppressed no matter what, even they include progressive elements and fair demands
 

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's is also an internal struggle because people are struggling especially after covid hit the country, foreign corporations are controlling large parts of the oil and gas industry, same applies to minerals.
That's true, especially about foreign ownership of the oil and gas industry.
Communist and socialist parties are banned (!)
That's not true, there's a communist party in the parliament right now - the People's Party of Kazakhstan, which was formed after the split of the original communist party in 2004. They have actually been growing throughout the years - each election they get slightly more and more votes.
workers unions are oppressed
This is true for all CIS countries unfortunately, the unions are essentially castrated.
a forced de-Russification effort is going on especially after converting Kazakh language writing to the latin alphabet. Despite 10% of population being Russian and of the many Kazakhi tribes that have Cyrillic writing for their native languages.
I feel like this is a Russian-centric point of view. The "language patrols" conducted by some overly eager Kazakh nationalists are absolutely condemnable but I don't see a problem in the overall trend of the Kazakh language superseding the Russian one. As you said, Russians make only 10% of the country's population - the language of the minority being more dominant than the language of the majority group is absolutely not a result of some natural process. It is a direct result of Russian imperialism pre-1917 and a later Soviet policy of Sovietization (essentially, Russification) which replaced the Korenization movement of early Soviets (which, on contrary, sought to preserve the language and cultures of the minorities). Plus there is some hypocrisy on the side of Russians - they refuse to learn the Kazakh language while being a minority in Kazakhstan but force the minorities within their country to learn Russian while sidelining their own native languages and act outraged if they need to take classes of some native languages (e.g. Tatar in Tatarstan - there has been plenty of scandals with Russian parents not wanting to have Tatar classes).

A bit offtopic, but you can see the difference between the approaches taken by the USSR (post-Lenin basically) and Mao's PRC (and previous Soviet Korenization) even today. The Buryat language in Buryatia is declining with most young people not knowing how to speak it; the language is not mandatory in most of the schools (only Russian is and English as the foreign subject); most of the ads, announcements, news sources, street signs, etc. are strictly in Russian; many Buryats retain their culture in a quite superficial way - through food or, more rarely, clothing during big celebrations, most have been Russified. On the other hand, in Hulun-Buir (which has a much smaller Buryat population btw, it is in the low thousands) the language is thriving among the youth - the more traditional ones even don't speak Chinese since they mostly own herds and don't need that much communication skills in Mandarin, while those who aim to go for the bigger cities are mostly bilingual. I can personally attest to this because I have relatives in HB who migrated there after the civil war and this is a reason why I facepalm every time some Westerner says bullshit about "cultural genocide" in China - it is merely a projection of what the European imperialists did to their minorities.

As for Cyrillic writing, it is a more complex issue since it did not supersede some native form of writing but the Arabic one which spread to the Kazakhstan region through Islam (e.g. Kazakh Chinese actually use Arabic writing). While Latinization has some roots in history (the Turkic minorities throughout the USSR used Latinized Yanalif in 1929-1940), I feel like it is more pushed by the Kazakh Turanists who are heavily backed by Turkey rather than being naturally promoted due to cultural reasons.
 

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
I am no expert with respect to certain capabilities of any one's countries military but I must say I like the look of Taiwanese military uniform and I quite prefer the looks it conveys better than their PLA counterparts. I don't know if the soldiers on this clip are part of a special group/forces but they seem to look more "polished" and "professional" not to mention that they look a more competent force because to my eyes they appear with a certain command attention (their vest looks thicker/more protection compared to the PLA) compared to the PLA minus the PAP. Am I talking out of my a...or what.

There was news that the Taiwanese army raised live ammo training from 40 rounds to 80 or something, lol, nuff said. These "fashion units" are extremely undertrained.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I think its difficult to compare leaders as they had very different jobs to do. Hu and Xiang were there to oversee a rapid build up of Wealth and Power and were not overly concerned by how it was achieved. Xi however is installed to oversee the perilous process of overtaking the USA as the worlds primary economy (and by extension power). The keys words to this are steadyness, stability and resilience and many of the measures we now see in the Chinese economy have the hallmarks of building resilience all over them.

Exactly. Before Xi, the emphasis was on building the economy. Did Hu want to tamp out corruption? He sure did. In fact, Zhu Rongji was reputed for doing exactly that, except he wasn't able to achieve anything despite harsh measures.

There's a saying in Chinese: 天时地利人和, meaning all the right elements needing to fall into place.

The other thing I heavily suspect is that all corrupt officials were sympathetic to the West, and especially looked up to the US. The corruption purge at once took out the corrupt officials and the pro-West faction in the CPC.
 
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