Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Like I said, too naive.

Look at Canada. We just discovered 215 children buried in a mass grave under a residential school. Did our politicians look in the mirror and wondered if they were doing the right thing? No, they just gave themselves an extra holiday and patted themselves on the back for a job well done. After which they went right on talking about China's human right abuses.

I think we're talking about the same thing just from different directions?

Likewise, Taiwan and the US has failed on covid strategies but hey, let's do a symbolic flight into Taiwan and score some cheap points so our people looking at that C17 parked in Taiwan will say American F**k yeah and ignore that how much fail we have.

So to clarify what I have been saying,
The flight and the shipment of 750k vaccines does absolutely SFA in real terms.
But the photo opt and the storyline spun from it is exactly as per what you have said, assuaging their own guilt and giving them a bogeyman to vent on.

Note: the 215 is just the latest number on top of thousands previously discovered. Yes, we wonder when the west will hold themselves accountable but I ain't holding my breath waiting for that.
 

tch1972

Junior Member
Well it would be good if you could answer my question on whether Singapore is looking to approve Russian vaccines and whether the people there are interested in Russian vaccines.

From my experience, many people there intentionally are proud of their poor command of Chinese as an indicator of (Westernized) upper class status. Rather like Hong Kong.

Singapore is similar to Switzerland when declaring political neutrality in that, well, it isn't really neutrality if you look closely. They certainly aren't fond of Russia.

I hazard a guess that the pro China folks are older like @Hendrik_2000 because the younger people I interact with in Taiwan, HK, and Singapore, only like 10% of them are pro China. Of course there are way more old Taiwanese HKers Singaporeans fond of China than young ones because of the generation gap (more Chinese style education for people who grew up in the 70s or so).

Anyway I apologize if it sounds like a rant.

There is some change in mentality particularly amongst the youth. During my school days in the 80s, China was often ridiculed among my circle classmates and MIC products were often regarded as a hallmark of shame and embarrassment. i found myself as the lone pro china ranger.

Nowadays the youths are starting to buy china made stuffs. My friend daughter who studied in a tradition English schools are crazy with some of the MIC products(and she is not ashamed to show it) Something unthinkable in the past.

Having said so, people who are generally anti China are more vocal whilst those who are more pro china generally kept a low profile as it not politically correct to openly express their stance.
 
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tch1972

Junior Member
The Russian vaccine doesn't feature as strongly in public discussion probably because;
1) We historically do not have strong ties with Russia, unlike China or the Western world.
2) Russia isn't pushing the vaccine at the little red dot, they have bigger fishes to fry?



I do not know where you get your impression of Singapore from but I hope it is not from Crazy Rich Asians ;)

There is a segment of the population that is racially classified as Peranakan (Straits Born Chinese) who are very much what you ascribe. Despite looking Chinese, they vehemently divorce themselves of Chinese language and culture. This stems from pride in their own evolved culture as opposed to one derived from everything anti-China (eg. Taiwan/DPP). It doesn't make the Peranakan world view automatically anti-Chinese however but it doesn't help either.

Communicating in accented English as a sign of status was a thing while I was growing up but that is no longer the case now. Back then (in the 70/80s), Singapore wasn't quite as confident and travel wasn't quite as accessible as it is now. If your neighbours went for 2 week holidays in the US, they'd return with an effected accent and people will be like "wah, the Chans went to the US for a holiday leh"

Things are different these days. Travel no longer has the mystique it did. Singaporeans travel a lot. The portion of the population that has an oversea education is also significantly larger now. What was uncommon is now common. You come back from a holiday with an accent and people will just look at you crazy like the pretentious little twat you are.

The rich have never really worn their lack of Chinese language skills as a badge of pride, if anything, they are rich because they are practical. Whereas in the past they may have made sure that the children spoke good English and ignored the Chinese language the reality of the current times means that all the rich families are equally focused equipping their children with true bilingual skills.



Singapore is hardly neutral. We are very much west aligned.
We recognise the realpolitik in our own backyard and have tried to maintain good relations with both China and the West. Whereas Lee Kuan Yew did a sterling job of 脚踏两船 (having a foot in both camps), the current crop of leaders are rather more inept (my view) or more west signalling and our ties with China has deteriorated as a result.

If you are Russian, then I hate to tell you that Russia does not feature strongly in the psyche of the typical Singaporean. Singaporeans are very apolitical, we do not care much for politics in general, especially not when you are a world away. The general attitude towards Russia is really very neutral as we do not view Russia as having any effect on the stability of our region, politically or economic. We view Russia more as a romantic travel destination than anything else.



The older folks are majority anti-China as they emigrated from China with grievances (mostly) and lived through the 50/60s anti-communist era.
The younger folks are also more pro-West as our local media is western MSM derived and the western media has been kind to Singapore recently.
It is the folks in between, like myself, in between the older and the younger, who present the biggest group of cynical non-west aligned population who are more inclined to view China in a positive light.

To explain, in the 80/90s, Singapore was constantly being savaged by the western press, Safire, et al. The same key words, authoritarian police state, dictator, oppressed, everything you do you get fined, blah blah blah, was hurled at us frequently.

The thing is, I grew up in Singapore and I was always confused between what I read about my country and what I personally experienced. The Singapore govt then was a very hard nosed bunch and did what they did because "the ends justified the means". We were told condescendingly by our western counterparts that the end never justifies the means.

Roll around to the 2000s and the US is neck deep in their war on terror and are doing the same thing, violating rights everywhere. The one key phrase that jumped out to us is that the west says the threats justify their actions. #rolleyes

Cue the current times where we see China being demonised as a authoritarian police state ruled by a dictator amidst a sea of human rights violation. Thing is, we travel a lot to China and we recognise a lot of the same dichotomy of our childhood. Truly you cannot judge based on what you have read until you have experienced it yourself.

The old are too entrenched. The young lack the cynicism of their parents because they are bombarded by western media and haven't gone through the same epiphany.

No worries on "the rant". I hope I have shed some light on the little red dot and helped us understand each other better.

Actually people nowadays are smarter than to believe in all bs by media. Here is one by usual anti china CNA trying to pull a fast one with some misleading headlines. Viewers dont buy that and lambast the station. See the comments below

 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
Ever noticed that people from the tropics hate the heat and love the cold/snow while the people from places with snow, really hate the snow and the cold and can't wait to lie on a beach?

That's why sports and activities that involve being out in the heat are really the domain of mad dogs and Englishmen.

That said, Singaporeans do participate significantly in Sea/Water sports. The govt push and infrastructure ensures high water comfort within the populance. But local conditions do allow for much.
Flat seas means not much surfing happens locally. Tame winds means not much kite surfing happens locally. High maritimes traffic means not much sailing/SUP or scuba diving happens locally.

You get the picture? :)
We need to get out of our sovereign little 700+ km2 with it's very benign natural environment that makes it a natural harbour/port to get any sea sport done.
I can tell you don't do sea sports. Sea sports is actually very cooling during hot weather.

Surfing isn't possible in Singapore or Hong Kong. Windsurfing however is very much so. You can do them at Aloha Sea Sports Centre and NSRCC Sea Sports Centre. I do know the sea sports community there well.

You made a layman mistake of conflating surfing and windsurfing. There's windsurfing, windfoiling, wing surfing, wing foiling etc. All of these can be done in Singapore and Hong Kong even with the wind conditions there. Kite surfing can only be done with a boat unfortunately. Scuba diving isn't really counted as a sea sport, nor dragon boating or kayaking (more green water river sports).

If you actually participated in sea sports in Singapore or Hong Kong you would know locals are outnumbered by whites. There's a common refrain that Singaporeans and Hong Kongers are not adventurous in this sense. Also if you participated in sea sports you would know the vast majority of sea sports can be done with much fun even with the generally tame wind conditions in your country.

Scuba diving is not ideal not because of maritime traffic but the murky urban waters. There is a high separation between the container ships and sea sports activity zone.

Sailing is very competitive in Singapore. Any world sailor knows that Singapore Sailing is very competitive in the global landscape. Even more so than Hong Kong Sailing. There are three major sailing centres in your country, all on the East Coast. Chow Yun Fat came from Hong Kong to Singapore to learn sailing so most certainly sailing can be done (I got the retro photo of Chow Yun Fat learning sailing with my dad's friends).

Thanks for suggesting that I'm a 'mad dog' lol :cool:
 
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NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Russian vaccine doesn't feature as strongly in public discussion probably because;
1) We historically do not have strong ties with Russia, unlike China or the Western world.
2) Russia isn't pushing the vaccine at the little red dot, they have bigger fishes to fry?
A real shame. Russia is heavily understated in the media discourse. If anything it makes more sense to understand Russia then to wait for them to come to you.
 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sorry for going off topic one more time. I was making some corrections but the time expired.

Wing foiling isn't really possible in Singapore but possible in Hong Kong. Surfing can be done in Hong Kong but not Singapore. Surfing conditions in Hong Kong are not good but a lot of hot girls are around on Hong Kong's surf beaches :cool: Dedicated surfers in Hong Kong generally travel to more surf friendly locations such as Bali or the Phillipines (both Caucasian and local).
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well, don't make any comments for things you have no clues :mad: , have you been to NZ ?

Before pandemic, per capita we are one of the most travelled (overseas) country in the world, way above the US

NZ Covid-19 responses and mitigation is way way better than the UK or any other countries in the world apart from perhaps China or Taiwan

You need to take a chill pill.

I do actually have a clue and yes, I have been to New Zealand and also Australia.

---

The average New Zealand resident only does 0.5 overseas trips per year. That is 1 trip every 2 years. Is that really going to be missed?
Yes, that is way more than the USA (0.2), but that is not saying very much.

And if we're talking about the UK, I calculate a figure of 1.4 overseas trips per year.
But the Singaporeans were used to 5.2 overseas trips per year, with no domestic holidays.

So I stand by my statement that New Zealanders weren't too impacted by the travel bans.

You can see from the figures that most New Zealand holidays are domestic anyway.

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antiterror13

Brigadier
You need to take a chill pill.

I do actually have a clue and yes, I have been to New Zealand and also Australia.

---

The average New Zealand resident only does 0.5 overseas trips per year. That is 1 trip every 2 years. Is that really going to be missed?
Yes, that is way more than the USA (0.2), but that is not saying very much.

And if we're talking about the UK, I calculate a figure of 1.4 overseas trips per year.
But the Singaporeans were used to 5.2 overseas trips per year, with no domestic holidays.

So I stand by my statement that New Zealanders weren't too impacted by the travel bans.

You can see from the figures that most New Zealand holidays are domestic anyway.

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well, not much you could do in Singapore ... and going to Batam and Johor would be considered overseas trip .. not really smart comparison, you should be better than that

For UK, it is true when the UK was part of EU .. travel between UK and France was like between city ... but now, the figure would be totally different


No, you have no clues about NZ ... you knew something (not much) better after googling ... thanks mr google ;)
 
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