Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I never been to usa but a couple years ago my cousin went to los angeles for holiday, and he got robbed at convenience store with guns pointed at him
Its shocking how crime is really prevalent in the us, as if they still live in wild west and people still want to come to travel and migrate there

Unless you have good education and/or special skill sets it isn’t really that easy to make a good living in the states. I’ve lived here for twenty years and it actually used to be a lot easier to get a good paying job when I first got here in the early 2000s. Nowadays if you want to get a decent pay but have no college education, you need to specialize in trade like plumbing/repair/mining.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
And what exactly will that achieve?

It will achieve the demonising of the China and the Chinese on the world stage while furthering the farce that the western democracies are the angels who will save the world from evil tyranny. It allows them to retain the mandate of their electoral majority, which will make it easier to continue the actions to isolate China politically and economically.

Imagine if the western masses truly have a unbiased, unadulterated picture of how horrible some of the actions of their govt is/was? Harping on the evils of others while making themselves the heroes makes them feel good about themselves and carry on carrying on ignoring the consequences of their actions and the restitutions required.

The best example I can give you and one I grew up with is that I truly thought the "Red Indian" were the savage bad guys and the Americans the civilizing good guys until I grew old enough to learn the truth. The power of Hollywood and the western press.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well it would be good if you could answer my question on whether Singapore is looking to approve Russian vaccines and whether the people there are interested in Russian vaccines.

The Russian vaccine doesn't feature as strongly in public discussion probably because;
1) We historically do not have strong ties with Russia, unlike China or the Western world.
2) Russia isn't pushing the vaccine at the little red dot, they have bigger fishes to fry?

From my experience, many people there intentionally are proud of their poor command of Chinese as an indicator of (Westernized) upper class status. Rather like Hong Kong.

I do not know where you get your impression of Singapore from but I hope it is not from Crazy Rich Asians ;)

There is a segment of the population that is racially classified as Peranakan (Straits Born Chinese) who are very much what you ascribe. Despite looking Chinese, they vehemently divorce themselves of Chinese language and culture. This stems from pride in their own evolved culture as opposed to one derived from everything anti-China (eg. Taiwan/DPP). It doesn't make the Peranakan world view automatically anti-Chinese however but it doesn't help either.

Communicating in accented English as a sign of status was a thing while I was growing up but that is no longer the case now. Back then (in the 70/80s), Singapore wasn't quite as confident and travel wasn't quite as accessible as it is now. If your neighbours went for 2 week holidays in the US, they'd return with an effected accent and people will be like "wah, the Chans went to the US for a holiday leh"

Things are different these days. Travel no longer has the mystique it did. Singaporeans travel a lot. The portion of the population that has an oversea education is also significantly larger now. What was uncommon is now common. You come back from a holiday with an accent and people will just look at you crazy like the pretentious little twat you are.

The rich have never really worn their lack of Chinese language skills as a badge of pride, if anything, they are rich because they are practical. Whereas in the past they may have made sure that the children spoke good English and ignored the Chinese language the reality of the current times means that all the rich families are equally focused equipping their children with true bilingual skills.

Singapore is similar to Switzerland when declaring political neutrality in that, well, it isn't really neutrality if you look closely. They certainly aren't fond of Russia.

Singapore is hardly neutral. We are very much west aligned.
We recognise the realpolitik in our own backyard and have tried to maintain good relations with both China and the West. Whereas Lee Kuan Yew did a sterling job of 脚踏两船 (having a foot in both camps), the current crop of leaders are rather more inept (my view) or more west signalling and our ties with China has deteriorated as a result.

If you are Russian, then I hate to tell you that Russia does not feature strongly in the psyche of the typical Singaporean. Singaporeans are very apolitical, we do not care much for politics in general, especially not when you are a world away. The general attitude towards Russia is really very neutral as we do not view Russia as having any effect on the stability of our region, politically or economic. We view Russia more as a romantic travel destination than anything else.

I hazard a guess that the pro China folks are older like @Hendrik_2000 because the younger people I interact with in Taiwan, HK, and Singapore, only like 10% of them are pro China. Of course there are way more old Taiwanese HKers Singaporeans fond of China than young ones because of the generation gap (more Chinese style education for people who grew up in the 70s or so).

Anyway I apologize if it sounds like a rant.

The older folks are majority anti-China as they emigrated from China with grievances (mostly) and lived through the 50/60s anti-communist era.
The younger folks are also more pro-West as our local media is western MSM derived and the western media has been kind to Singapore recently.
It is the folks in between, like myself, in between the older and the younger, who present the biggest group of cynical non-west aligned population who are more inclined to view China in a positive light.

To explain, in the 80/90s, Singapore was constantly being savaged by the western press, Safire, et al. The same key words, authoritarian police state, dictator, oppressed, everything you do you get fined, blah blah blah, was hurled at us frequently.

The thing is, I grew up in Singapore and I was always confused between what I read about my country and what I personally experienced. The Singapore govt then was a very hard nosed bunch and did what they did because "the ends justified the means". We were told condescendingly by our western counterparts that the end never justifies the means.

Roll around to the 2000s and the US is neck deep in their war on terror and are doing the same thing, violating rights everywhere. The one key phrase that jumped out to us is that the west says the threats justify their actions. #rolleyes

Cue the current times where we see China being demonised as a authoritarian police state ruled by a dictator amidst a sea of human rights violation. Thing is, we travel a lot to China and we recognise a lot of the same dichotomy of our childhood. Truly you cannot judge based on what you have read until you have experienced it yourself.

The old are too entrenched. The young lack the cynicism of their parents because they are bombarded by western media and haven't gone through the same epiphany.

No worries on "the rant". I hope I have shed some light on the little red dot and helped us understand each other better.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
You guys are in the middle of nowhere, so didn't travel much even before the pandemic lol

It's 4hours by plane just to Australia from NZ.
Actually NZ's population is close to5million. It would be 6 million if we included those that live overseas. Pre Covid over 110000 NZ ders travel overseas on a monthly basis.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, it is cheaper to spend a fly away for a weekend abroad than to stay at home in Singapore.
We have the same thing happening in London.

Singapore isn't really that expensive a city to live in.
The indexes that put us at the top are based on an expatriate, high living lifestyle.

Trust me, it really is much more expensive to spend a weekend away that it is to stay in Singapore.

Also, not to make light of the difficulties you face but I have a friend in Italy who thought our experiences were similar until Italy went into full lockdown recently and he wasn't allowed to leave the municipality of Milan for close on 2 months.

He went ballistic.

What got to him was that everywhere he went, he couldn't find an empty, quiet spot. The parks, the trials, the lakes, everywhere was just people.

Tantalisingly, one border away, the empty hills beckoned.

London is a great city and I don't think you will run out of things to do in London, moneyed or not. The issue is imagine being restricted to just metro London and not being able to just get away from the madding crowd. That is the wear and tear that is grating at us, not boredom.

How common is the knowledge that Sinovac has less side effects than Pfizer/Moderna?

Not very common or much discussed.

Even AZ is not viewed in a terrible light in the sense that yes, we are aware of the blood clots but we are also rather sanguine about it being almost a one-in-a-million thing. AZ is also viewed rather comically as the vaccine the western countries won't use/approve but are donating to other countries. #rolleyes

Again, I have to qualify that there are segments, as with any population, that see things that see things not from a rational view but rather from ignorance or political lenses. So there definitely chicken littles running around.

You could claim that the lack of discussion in official channels is manipulation by the govt to push people to the endorsed Pfizer/moderna shot
OTOH, the lack of discussion in non-official channels really points to rare side effects being seen as less of an issue than the unknown of nRNA tech.
 

solarz

Brigadier
It will achieve the demonising of the China and the Chinese on the world stage while furthering the farce that the western democracies are the angels who will save the world from evil tyranny. It allows them to retain the mandate of their electoral majority, which will make it easier to continue the actions to isolate China politically and economically.

Imagine if the western masses truly have a unbiased, unadulterated picture of how horrible some of the actions of their govt is/was? Harping on the evils of others while making themselves the heroes makes them feel good about themselves and carry on carrying on ignoring the consequences of their actions and the restitutions required.

The best example I can give you and one I grew up with is that I truly thought the "Red Indian" were the savage bad guys and the Americans the civilizing good guys until I grew old enough to learn the truth. The power of Hollywood and the western press.

As our Elder would say, "Too young, too simple. Sometimes naive."

The "Western masses" couldn't give a damn about the crimes of their government. What, do you think they're simply being hoodwinked? They know full well the Iraq War was launched on a lie, they know full well millions of Muslims were killed by Western bombs in the past twenty years. Just as they know full well they committed genocide on Native Americans and Africans a couple of centuries ago.

All of these exercises in propaganda do is to assuage their guilty conscience, to placate their cognitive dissonance.

China isn't saying anything because none of these stupid games will help Taiwan when the time for reunification comes.

In the jungle, when an animal make a lot of noise, it's actually looking to avoid a fight. On the other hand, when a predator goes quiet, it's getting ready to pounce.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Anyway I've heard grumbling from the Singaporeans here about being trapped on an island during a pandemic. I would suggest trying out sea sports like sailing, windsurfing. It's not as expensive as you think if you do it once every weekend. The sea sports clubs in Hong Kong and Singapore are populated with white people - for some reason the locals do not bother trying out sea sports all that much.

I've been heading out to sea so the pandemic hasn't been as harsh on me.

When I speak to mainland Chinese friends they seem eager to try out sea sports. When I speak to overseas Chinese about trying sea sports they just stare at me and return to looking at the television. I don't even know a single Chinese American who does sea sports even though there are millions of Chinese Americans out there. Gotta stop that helicopter parenting!

Anyway I'm gonna head out to sea next afternoon - @ansy1968 wanna join me?

Ever noticed that people from the tropics hate the heat and love the cold/snow while the people from places with snow, really hate the snow and the cold and can't wait to lie on a beach?

That's why sports and activities that involve being out in the heat are really the domain of mad dogs and Englishmen.

That said, Singaporeans do participate significantly in Sea/Water sports. The govt push and infrastructure ensures high water comfort within the populance. But local conditions do allow for much.
Flat seas means not much surfing happens locally. Tame winds means not much kite surfing happens locally. High maritimes traffic means not much sailing/SUP or scuba diving happens locally.

You get the picture? :)
We need to get out of our sovereign little 700+ km2 with it's very benign natural environment that makes it a natural harbour/port to get any sea sport done.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
.
The "Western masses" couldn't give a damn about the crimes of their government. What, do you think they're simply being hoodwinked? They know full well the Iraq War was launched on a lie, they know full well millions of Muslims were killed by Western bombs in the past twenty years. Just as they know full well they committed genocide on Native Americans and Africans a couple of centuries ago.

All of these exercises in propaganda do is to assuage their guilty conscience, to placate their cognitive dissonance.

Bingo.

Yes, all are complicit in not talking about our own wrongs and instead pointing our fingers at others because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

After all,
How will the masses react if they have to constantly look themselves in the mirror and do the right thing?
How will the democratically elected government continue to implement their policies to stay #1 if they have to constantly answer to their electorate about embarassing issues?
 

solarz

Brigadier
Bingo.

Yes, all are complicit in not talking about our own wrongs and instead pointing our fingers at others because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

After all,
How will the masses react if they have to constantly look themselves in the mirror and do the right thing?
How will the democratically elected government continue to implement their policies to stay #1 if they have to constantly answer to their electorate about embarassing issues?

Like I said, too naive.

Look at Canada. We just discovered 215 children buried in a mass grave under a residential school. Did our politicians look in the mirror and wondered if they were doing the right thing? No, they just gave themselves an extra holiday and patted themselves on the back for a job well done. After which they went right on talking about China's human right abuses.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, don't make any comments for things you have no clues :mad: , have you been to NZ ?

Before pandemic, per capita we are one of the most travelled (overseas) country in the world, way above the US

NZ Covid-19 responses and mitigation is way way better than the UK or any other countries in the world apart from perhaps China or Taiwan


Paul Keating once said that "Australia is at the arse end of the world"

I think he meant New Zealand. Maybe just the South Island. Maybe just Dunedin ...

Anyway, I jest.

But statistics have a way of lying.

eg.
Chinese and USians do travel a lot but their numbers are disproportionately domestic derived.
Likewise, Europeans do travel "internationally" a lot but is travel within the Schengen area truly international travel or really a form of domestic travel?
HK takes the cake as far as international travel by local residents are concerned but we all know that it is disproportionately inflated by the business travels of the fat cats flying in and out.

So, is flying across the creek considered international travel and how much of NZ's travel statistic is distorted by that?
 
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