Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Where do you get your evidence to support your assertion that "even Chinese believe that Chinese vaccines are ineffective and refuse to take it" per your quote. I mean as of today there's an average of 4 to 5 million Chinese getting Chinese vaccines in China which is more than what India can show so far and at this rate they will come close to surpassing the total number of population getting inoculated in the U.S.

Don't just assert something without providing any facts to support your opinion and expect me to believe any of it at face value. Are there any Chinese that's holding off from getting the vaccine for sure, but is the majority of their reluctance based off on the lack of confidence to their countries vaccines efficacy? Far from it. They are holding off because the number of cases in China has largely been successfully CONTAINED and much of the lives of ordinary Chinese citizens have largely gone back to NORMAL and that's something people in the majority of the world can't claim and most likely wish to have or be under.
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还是别贬低人家的疫苗了吧。说了好几个月别人疫苗不行。这两天高福出来说国产疫苗效果不好,要和别的疫苗混着用,还真不适应。
 

KYli

Brigadier
Many Muslims in where or which countries? Again, you're basing your comments and understanding from a western mindset or western perspective. The world consist of more than just the west or western led narrative. If your assumptions were true then the B.R.I. Initiative wouldn't have so many member countries that as of this writing is around 130 countries and the membership to B.R.I. is VOLUNTARY and not forced. So please, do tell me how is China being alienated by the world again?
Just going through a dozen of Muslim forums, I can see many Muslims buy into the Xinjiang genocide propaganda especially those who residing in Western countries. Although they might still be minority at the moment but in the long term that might change.

There are more than just western led narrative but the western led narrative is still the dominated one. China BRI just needs to deal with the ruling elites. Beside China is still viewed postively in most developing world but the Western media and government are trying to chipping away that by spreading misinformation such as Xinjiang genocide lie. I never say China has been alienated by the world. You keep jumping to the conclusion. I am saying the Chinese government, bureaucrats and media suck at propaganda and PR.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Just going through a dozen of Muslim forums, I can see many Muslims buy into the Xinjiang genocide propaganda especially those who residing in Western countries. Although they might still be minority at the moment but in the long term that might change.

There are more than just western led narrative but the western led narrative is still the dominated one. China BRI just needs to deal with the ruling elites. Beside China is still viewed postively in most developing world but the Western media and government are trying to chipping away that by spreading misinformation such as Xinjiang genocide lie. I never say China has been alienated by the world. You keep jumping to the conclusion. I am saying the Chinese government, bureaucrats and media suck at propaganda and PR.
Agreed. There is a reason the US is using propaganda.

The reason is that it works extremely well. People might want to dismiss this but the data is out there and it shows that it is working. Check surveys and you will notice that when Trump decided for all-in against China, then the propaganda machine started firing in all cylinders.

Chinese bureaucrats and officials can be as careful as possible but the media will find ways to twist their words

Anyway, the main thing is that the media is Western dominated and that China doesn't have diverse competitive media (for obvious political reasons) to combat the Western narratives
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Just going through a dozen of Muslim forums, I can see many Muslims buy into the Xinjiang genocide propaganda especially those who residing in Western countries. Although they might still be minority at the moment but in the long term that might change.

There are more than just western led narrative but the western led narrative is still the dominated one. China BRI just needs to deal with the ruling elites. Beside China is still viewed postively in most developing world but the Western media and government are trying to chipping away that by spreading misinformation such as Xinjiang genocide lie. I never say China has been alienated by the world. You keep jumping to the conclusion. I am saying the Chinese government, bureaucrats and media suck at propaganda and PR.
To get better at PR, the Chinese government needs to learn from the best (The West). It must control its own narratives, otherwise the Western media will control it for you.
 

solarz

Brigadier
This is a perfect example to show how propaganda between China and the West isn't a fair comparison simply for looking at results because the world was already built to be in line with America after WWII. Yeah, Gao Fu's not perfect; far from it. He took a lot of criticism too for failing to recognize the threat of COVID when it just started. But compare the little mistakes he makes to the mistakes that American politicians make. How many stupid things did Trump and his cabinet say about COVID and still have their propaganda be considered "effective" or better than China's? Inject bleach/UV light, it's a virus/bacteria/germ/nobody knows, this is COVID-19 not COVID-1, MERS came from China, etc... If Chinese politicians made these gaffs their careers would be over immediately.

Exactly. The playing field is not level, so why play your opponent's game?
 

daifo

Major
Registered Member
Yeah the Chinese are horrible when it comes to PR. They should know the West will take any opportunity against China. I'll have to assume their mistakes are cultural. What they think they're saying is not the same how others will interpret it. It's just like Ren Zhengfei, CEO of Huawei. While Trump was President and taking actions against China and Huawei, he sent mixed messages. One time he would say things what the Western media called strong comments against the US and then the next he would make conciliatory remarks to Trump. That's what I hate about Beijing because they do that too. Americans don't admit they're wrong nor admit they're in a weaker position. When Beijing makes those statements like someone is "hurting Chinese people's feelings..." I just cringe. Does Beijing think showing China's emotions on their sleeves is going to make the other side change their minds? Where's that poker face that Asians are stereotyped as unemotional and cold? If it's some Sun Tzusian tactic, it doesn't work. It's like Chinese who argue China should take the high road like they seem to think China is doing now. I don't see any rewards for taking the high road. I only see things getting worse so what they think they see as happening is not happening because they see things from a cultural perspective and not all cultures see things the same way especially Western culture.

I think it is some old fool cadres heading the propaganda and PR dept. The stuff are made in such a childish manner that only a child or gran pa/ma or just a hardcore nationalist could swallow without choking. Only recently its gotten a little better with people like chen weihua.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just going through a dozen of Muslim forums, I can see many Muslims buy into the Xinjiang genocide propaganda especially those who residing in Western countries. Although they might still be minority at the moment but in the long term that might change.

There are more than just western led narrative but the western led narrative is still the dominated one. China BRI just needs to deal with the ruling elites. Beside China is still viewed postively in most developing world but the Western media and government are trying to chipping away that by spreading misinformation such as Xinjiang genocide lie. I never say China has been alienated by the world. You keep jumping to the conclusion. I am saying the Chinese government, bureaucrats and media suck at propaganda and PR.
Fair enough.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Yeah the Chinese are horrible when it comes to PR. They should know the West will take any opportunity against China. I'll have to assume their mistakes are cultural. What they think they're saying is not the same how others will interpret it. It's just like Ren Zhengfei, CEO of Huawei. While Trump was President and taking actions against China and Huawei, he sent mixed messages. One time he would say things what the Western media called strong comments against the US and then the next he would make conciliatory remarks to Trump. That's what I hate about Beijing because they do that too. Americans don't admit they're wrong nor admit they're in a weaker position. When Beijing makes those statements like someone is "hurting Chinese people's feelings..." I just cringe. Does Beijing think showing China's emotions on their sleeves is going to make the other side change their minds? Where's that poker face that Asians are stereotyped as unemotional and cold? If it's some Sun Tzusian tactic, it doesn't work. It's like Chinese who argue China should take the high road like they seem to think China is doing now. I don't see any rewards for taking the high road. I only see things getting worse so what they think they see as happening is not happening because they see things from a cultural perspective and not all cultures see things the same way especially Western culture.
Just like how Chinese FM spokespeople would only ever answer questions in Chinese, their message is also crafted for Chinese domestic audiences first and foremost, and then as a means to send messages to western governments and business elite. How the western masses take the message is seldom a big enough factor to override requirements of the former.

China is ‘bad’ at playing the ‘PR game’ in the west principally because they are not really playing, since they know that ‘game’ is so ridiculously rigged it would be stupid to expect to achieve anything more than self humiliation to try.

That brings us to the other core reason China refuses to play western media games. Western politicians might lie through their teeth as easily as they breathe, but Chinese leaders hold themselves to a higher moral and ethical standard. I am struggling to think of any instance in its entire history where a senior Chinese government official have been caught in a lie.

If you are not willing to tell bare faced lies, you are already fatally handicapped in the western media game, so it’s basically a none starter.

The Chinese CDC director’s comments were able to be taken out of context because unlike is western counterparts, his job is to tell the truth as he sees it as completely and thoroughly as possible. While that might provide easy sound bites for malicious forces to take his words out of context, it does mean that when he makes reports as China’s CDC director, you know you can take his words at face value without having to second guess everything he says. Have a look at China’s and America’s Covid situations and you tell me which CDC director has got his priorities right?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Just like how Chinese FM spokespeople would only ever answer questions in Chinese, their message is also crafted for Chinese domestic audiences first and foremost, and then as a means to send messages to western governments and business elite. How the western masses take the message is seldom a big enough factor to override requirements of the former.

China is ‘bad’ at playing the ‘PR game’ in the west principally because they are not really playing, since they know that ‘game’ is so ridiculously rigged it would be stupid to expect to achieve anything more than self humiliation to try.

That brings us to the other core reason China refuses to play western media games. Western politicians might lie through their teeth as easily as they breathe, but Chinese leaders hold themselves to a higher moral and ethical standard. I am struggling to think of any instance in its entire history where a senior Chinese government official have been caught in a lie.

If you are not willing to tell bare faced lies, you are already fatally handicapped in the western media game, so it’s basically a none starter.

The Chinese CDC director’s comments were able to be taken out of context because unlike is western counterparts, his job is to tell the truth as he sees it as completely and thoroughly as possible. While that might provide easy sound bites for malicious forces to take his words out of context, it does mean that when he makes reports as China’s CDC director, you know you can take his words at face value without having to second guess everything he says. Have a look at China’s and America’s Covid situations and you tell me which CDC director has got his priorities right?
Well that's why I said it's in part cultural. Civilians are more selfish. I have plenty to complain also about Chinese culture that results in my opinion to many of the problems China as a country faces today. Chinese want "respect" the Chinese way from the US. I don't expect Americans to comply as much as I don't expect Chinese to comply to what the US wants. Some stuff just doesn't work so why keep repeating what doesn't work? I hate how Chinese value Western brands. I would work against something so valueless. A lot of problems with Chinese is valuing the stupid like needing "respect". It's as worthless as the reason why Chinese think they deserve it. What about the Confucian value of respecting authority? It's so by-the-book with Chinese and that's why they value Western brand names. Western brands have a reputation of being superior quality. That's why Chinese will be quickly traitorous hence why I bring up the Chinese sycophant you see in Kung Fu movies that take place during colonialism who always sides with the foreign power in charge being a traitor to their own. They're following their interpretation of Confucianism. I'm not a romantic so I can see what some Chinese value as being worthless. Look at Hong Kong. The irony about Hong Kongers is they claim to believe in Western values yet they think like a Confucian where when Black Lives Matter eclipsed them in the world's attention and both were talking about police brutality, Hong Kongers identified and sided with the American authority and not the people who are experiencing police brutality. The only difference between the US and China to a Hong Konger is the US is a higher "authoritarian" than China not because they believe in human rights more. Their only problem with Beijing is they don't think Beijing is a worthy enough authoritarian to rule them.
 
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