...China could probably supply all the subsystems for the C919 domestically today, save the engines. They went with foreign partnerships because it would expedite development time, help lower regulatory burdens when going into international markets, and create buy in from foreign companies and countries that could help them lobby. This obsession with whether any of China’s products are “completely” domestic is a bit silly. What matters is that China has the *capability* to provide the whole technology stack, *not* that it *must* exclude foreign suppliers. The point is to be self sufficient, not to be closed off. Self sufficiency shouldn’t mean doing everything on your own. It just means having self provided options when you need them.
Chinese Aviation Industry
- Thread starter FriedRiceNSpice
- Start date
I should have been more specific. For components from US suppliers, the extreme hostility partnered with a reasonable threat of war means that a domestic equivalent MUST become available ASAP, european components should be prototyped and in final specification form, while japanese/korean components should be in intial design and requirements. Ultimately, China should have reasonable equivalents within the entire technological stack that are in production, but not excluding other suppliers. For example, had China already mass produced 10 nm chips under SMIC, the US likely wouldnt have sanctioned at 7 nm since it would only be marginal stretch of existing capabilities. For that same reason, stability is ensured by having the ability to produce the entire stack immediately but not displacing all suppliers yet.
All of the C919 “foreign” parts are provided via joint ventures save the engines. It’s already effectively indigenous.
There is no conflict.
Do not buy products from foreign suppliers. China only imports raw materials. Domestic manufacturers will use raw materials to make components. It ensures national security, but maintains a transactional relationship with the world.
If Comac doesn't buy from local suppliers, the local companies will likely not survive. The local products would be newer and therefore would have fewer approvals from certification authorities around the world. Who but Comac would have an incentive to buy the local stuff?
So Comac should buy the local products when they're available. Perhaps most of the units of a specific subsystem can be local and the remaining units can be imported.
By the way, this is not the first time that you have made suggestions which if followed would result in the destruction of China's local companies. I think I see a pattern.
COMAC buys from foreign suppliers that are “joint ventures”. So effectively its “foreign” suppliers are local suppliers.
China has been using this joint venture strategy for decades. If the last thirty years of Chinese development is what this “destruction of China’s local companies” look like sign me up for more.
Unless the subsystems are manufactured in China, they are NOT effectively from local suppliers. Any imports from the West can easily be sanctioned.
I think Comac would be stupid to starve a truly local supplier by giving money to a US company instead.
Correct. Another reason is that buying parts from abroad fosters their arrogance. Instead of seeing the problem positively "win-win", they will think China is a powerless country, dependent on them, and they will take advantage of that to make it difficult for China: suddenly stopping the supply of parts or intentionally raising prices in times of emergency.
No they are not counted domestic if they are from JVs. Who owns the IP, who knows the manufacturing process, is the JV owned 49-51/50-50/51-49, does the contract say full ToT or partial ToT, how much is the domestic company of the Joint Venture allowed to iterate/improve on the design, what are the terms of the license, if COMAC wants to sell an aircraft to a sanctioned country can the domestic owner provide parts or will the overseas company block the transaction due to the laws in their country (US national security concerns, EU human right blabla etc)
So unless the domestic supply company involved in the JV has a FULL ownership of the IP and is able to sell to anyone without any sanction concerns then i would say that's a domestic supplier in name but a foreign supplier in reality.
Now if they managed their contract to have the above terms then good job but I doubt it that the other countries would allow full ToT